Why cannot the universe have net angular momentum?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the question of whether the universe can possess net angular momentum, exploring theoretical implications and observational evidence. It includes considerations from general relativity, local versus global measurements, and the nature of angular momentum in a cosmological context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference Kurt Gödel's solution to Einstein's equations, which suggests a rotating universe where time travel could be theoretically possible, yet observations indicate our universe does not exhibit such rotation.
  • There are mentions of observations showing a tiny net angular momentum related to galaxy spin axes, but some participants argue this reflects local rotations rather than a global rotation of the universe.
  • Questions arise regarding the reference frame for measuring the universe's angular momentum, with some suggesting it could be relative to itself or measured through inertial forces affecting gyroscopes.
  • One participant notes that angular momentum is not globally defined or conserved in general relativity, suggesting that it may be more appropriate to discuss angular velocity instead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the universe can have net angular momentum, with some arguing against the concept based on general relativity, while others point to observational data that may suggest otherwise. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of angular momentum in general relativity, the distinction between local and global measurements, and the implications of observational results that are not firmly established.

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chill_factor said:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2011/jul/25/was-the-universe-born-spinning

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1111/1111.3873.pdf

Is there any particular reason why the universe cannot have a net angular momentum? If it did indeed have a net angular momentum are there any consequences of that?

Kurt Godel found a solution of Einstein's GR equations in which the universe was rotating. Each point has an equal claim for being the center. In such a universe time travel is theoretically possible. Observations show that our Universe does not rotate in such a way.
 
thank you. then what of the results that show a tiny net angular momentum in terms of galaxy spin axes?
 
chill_factor said:
thank you. then what of the results that show a tiny net angular momentum in terms of galaxy spin axes?


That is a sum of local rotations, not a global rotation. You could say is is a net angular momentum. It is not a terribly firm result though, and I'd forgotten about it.
 
The question is what would you measure the angular momentum of the universe against, assuming it had any?
 
does angular momentum have to be relative to anything external though? it can be relative to itself. it can be measured by inertial forces such as the centrifugal force or Coriolis force and how they affect, say, the motion of gyroscopes within an object with angular momentum.
 
Chronos said:
The question is what would you measure the angular momentum of the universe against, assuming it had any?

I did laugh when I read that. That is funny.

I suppose what they would mean is that if you are stationary at the edge you would have an error between the total gravity you feel toward the center compared to measuring all the mass in the universe and doing the calculation on paper.
 
We have a FAQ about this: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=506988

It doesn't make sense to describe it as having a (zero or nonzero) angular momentum, because angular momentum isn't defined or conserved globally in GR. You can describe it as having a zero or nonzero angular velocity.
 
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