Why can't I treat the disk as a point mass?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the treatment of a disk in a physics problem, specifically whether it can be considered a point mass or if its rotational motion about its center of mass must be taken into account. The context suggests a scenario involving translational and rotational dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of treating the disk as a point mass versus considering its rotation. Questions arise about the relationship between translational and rotational motion, particularly in relation to the disk's attachment to a rod.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered insights regarding the assumptions about the disk's motion, suggesting that it may be attached to a rod, which influences its behavior. There is an ongoing exploration of how these assumptions affect calculations and interpretations of the problem.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of unclear diagrammatic representation and the potential for multiple interpretations regarding the disk's motion. The discussion reflects on the impact of rigid attachment versus free rotation on energy loss during impacts.

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Homework Statement
A grandfather’s clock consists of a disk of mass, 𝑴 attached to the end of rod of negligible mass and length, 𝑳. The grandfather’s clock is hanging vertically initially from a hinge at point 𝑨.
A lump of clay mass, 𝒎 moving horizontally at speed, 𝒗 collides with and sticks to the center of the disk, causing the grandfather’s clock to rise to a maximum angle 𝜽𝒎𝒂𝒙.

Which of the following is an expression for the angular speed angular speed, 𝝎 of the grandfather's clock (with a lump of clay sticking to center of disk) just after the collision? [Note: Assume that the clay is a point mass. Moment of inertia of disk about axis through center of disk I_disk=1/2MR^2]
Relevant Equations
𝐿𝑡𝑜𝑡,𝑃 = 𝐿𝑟𝑜𝑡𝐶𝑀,𝑟𝑜𝑑 + 𝐿𝑟𝑜𝑡𝐶𝑀,𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑘 + 𝐿𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑛𝑠,𝑃,𝑟𝑜𝑑 + 𝐿𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑛𝑠,𝑃,𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑘
Screen Shot 2022-11-24 at 15.20.55.png


Since the question made no indication of the disk rotating about its center, I just straight up assumed that the disk did not rotate about its center, and instead treated it as a point mass. However, to my surprise my calculations did not bear me any fruit. Below is my first attempt at the solution, where you could clearly see that my calculations did not yield me an answer that's even remotely close as to what was offered in the MCQ.

Screen Shot 2022-11-24 at 15.26.42.png


If I treated the disk to have rotated around its center however, I would get D as an answer. Below is my second attempt at the solution

Screen Shot 2022-11-24 at 15.32.26.png


So, am I to assume that the disk experienced some translational motion along with rotational motion about the disk's center of mass, because the question along with the diagram isn't very clear.
 
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cory21 said:
So, am I to assume that the disk experienced some translational motion along with rotational motion about the disk's center of mass, because the question along with the diagram isn't very clear.
Yes. I think you are supposed to assume that the disk is attached to the rod so that the disk doesn't rotate relative to the rod.

Suppose you paint an orange line on the disk.

1669323120416.png

You can see how the disk rotates through some angle ##\phi## as the rod swings through an angle ##\theta##. What is the relation between ##\theta## and ##\phi##?
 
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Here is a figure that I posted in another thread where the same issue arose. The Moon showing the same side to the Earth is an illustration of this idea of one spin revolution per orbit revolution.

PendulumDisk.png
 
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What surprised me about this scenario is that having the bob attached rigidly to the shaft, rather than on a free axle, increases the energy loss in the impact.
 

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