Why can't I use this equation for the magnetic field?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of magnetic field equations, specifically the relationship between the magnetic field (B) and magnetic field strength (H) in the context of materials with magnetic susceptibility. The original poster questions why a specific equation cannot be used to determine the magnetic field outside a material, contrasting their findings with the expected results.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of magnetic susceptibility on the magnetic field both inside and outside a material. The original poster initially attempts to apply the same equation for the magnetic field outside the material and questions the validity of this approach.

Discussion Status

Some participants provide insights regarding the value of magnetic susceptibility outside the material and discuss the effects of magnetization on the net magnetic field. There is an exploration of the roles of free and bound currents in determining the magnetic field, indicating a productive direction in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of considering the magnetic susceptibility of materials and the distinction between free and bound currents in the context of magnetic fields. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity introduced by these factors in the analysis of magnetic fields.

1v1Dota2RightMeow
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Homework Statement



upload_2016-11-19_21-59-12.png

Homework Equations


##\oint \vec{H} \cdot d\vec{l} = I_{free,enclosed}##
##\vec{B} = \mu_0 (1+\chi _m)\vec{H}##

The Attempt at a Solution


I found the magnetic field inside to be ##\vec{B} = \mu_0 (1+\chi _m)\frac{Is}{2 \pi a^2} \phi##. But why can't I use the same equation (##\vec{B} = \mu_0 (1+\chi _m)\vec{H}##) to solve for the field outside? The answer for the field outside is given as ##\vec{B} = \frac{\mu_0 I}{2 \pi s}##.
 
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1v1Dota2RightMeow said:
But why can't I use the same equation (##\vec{B} = \mu_0 (1+\chi _m)\vec{H}##) to solve for the field outside?
You can, but what is the value of ##\chi_m## for points outside the material?
 
TSny said:
You can, but what is the value of ##\chi_m## for points outside the material?

Lol yea I took the time to write the question, latex it up, and post, then realized a minute later the answer to my own question...

For further learning: the fact that we have to take into account the magnetic susceptibility of a material leads me to think that the material itself is either strengthening or weakening the magnetic field created by a free current passing through the material. So where do bound currents come into play?
 
1v1Dota2RightMeow said:
For further learning: the fact that we have to take into account the magnetic susceptibility of a material leads me to think that the material itself is either strengthening or weakening the magnetic field created by a free current passing through the material.
Yes, that's right. The field of the free current affects the magnetization M of the material which, in turn, affects the net magnetic field. In your example, the magnetization of the material affects only the net field inside the material. The net field outside the wire is due to the free current only. This is not typical. Usually, the magnetization of the material will affect the B field outside the material as well as inside. An extreme example is a magnetized piece of iron which has no free current but still produces plenty of B field outside the material.

So where do bound currents come into play?
There are microscopic (atomic) bound currents that can orient themselves to give a nonzero, effective macroscopic bound current density Jm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetization#Magnetization_in_Maxwell.27s_equations.
The net magnetic field at any point inside or outside the material is the sum of the fields of the free and bound currents.
 

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