- #1
mugunthan
- 1
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its is fuel efficient and pollution free
Why cant oxygen be used as fuel for cars?
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Discussion Overview
The discussion centers around the feasibility of using oxygen as a fuel for cars, exploring the nature of fuels and oxidizers, and the chemical processes involved in combustion. It touches on theoretical and practical aspects of fuel usage in vehicles.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
- Conceptual clarification
- Technical explanation
Main Points Raised
- Some participants argue that oxygen is fuel efficient and pollution-free.
- Others point out that oxygen is inflammable and not a fuel, as fuels generally burn with oxygen.
- A participant compares the concept to "powdered water," suggesting that oxygen cannot be a standalone fuel.
- One participant explains that combustion requires both a fuel and an oxidizer, with oxygen serving as the oxidizer in reactions with hydrocarbons.
- Another participant discusses the hydrolysis of water to produce hydrogen as a fuel and oxygen as an oxidizer, emphasizing that carrying oxygen is unnecessary due to its abundance in the atmosphere.
- It is noted that while oxygen is not used as a fuel, it can enhance performance in racing through methods like nitrous oxide and nitromethane, which contain oxygen and allow for more fuel combustion.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express differing views on the role of oxygen in combustion, with some asserting it cannot be used as fuel while others discuss its utility in enhancing performance. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the potential of oxygen as a fuel source.
Contextual Notes
There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of fuel and oxidizer, as well as assumptions about combustion processes and vehicle design that are not fully explored.
- #2
BvU
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But it's inflammable too ...
- #3
russ_watters
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Because oxygen isn't fuel. A fuel (generally) is something that burns with oxygen.
- #4
SteamKing
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For the same reason you can't have powdered water.
- #5
russ_watters
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Bad example. We get a lot of powdered water where I live in the winter...SteamKing said:
- #6
SteamKing
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Yeah, but you don't have to add water to reconstitute it from the powder.russ_watters said:
- #7
Baluncore
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If we carried only O2, what would we react it with to extract energy?
We have been burning hydrocarbons, (such as wood, peat, coal, fat or oil), in air for thousands of years. The air contains oxygen which is consumed by the reaction to produce H2O and CO2. So over time we have come to expect chemical energy to be released by oxidation of a fuel. The oxygen is not the fuel, it is the oxidiser of the fuel.
Hydrolysis of water generates a fuel, H2, and an oxidiser, O2. We can then recover some of the energy invested by reacting them together. But we do not need to carry the oxygen on our vehicle as there is more than sufficient in the atmosphere. Because O2 weighs many times that of H2, our total vehicle weight is reduced by carrying the fuel only, without the oxidiser.
We have been burning hydrocarbons, (such as wood, peat, coal, fat or oil), in air for thousands of years. The air contains oxygen which is consumed by the reaction to produce H2O and CO2. So over time we have come to expect chemical energy to be released by oxidation of a fuel. The oxygen is not the fuel, it is the oxidiser of the fuel.
Hydrolysis of water generates a fuel, H2, and an oxidiser, O2. We can then recover some of the energy invested by reacting them together. But we do not need to carry the oxygen on our vehicle as there is more than sufficient in the atmosphere. Because O2 weighs many times that of H2, our total vehicle weight is reduced by carrying the fuel only, without the oxidiser.
- #8
jack action
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As said by others, to create combustion, you need a fuel and an oxidizer. Oxygen is the most common oxidizer and plenty of it is found in air. Fuel is usually something made with carbon and/or hydrogen.
But adding oxygen is already used to enhance performance in race cars, although not in its pure form.
The first method is with the addition of nitrous oxyde (N2O). The concentration of oxygen is more dense with nitrous than with air alone, so more fuel can be added within the same engine displacement, leading to more force acting on the piston.
The second method is to used nitromethane (CH3NO2) as a fuel. Nitromethane is a fuel (because it has C & H) that actually carries oxygen so less air is needed and - just like for nitrous - more fuel can be burned within the same combustion chamber volume.
But adding oxygen is already used to enhance performance in race cars, although not in its pure form.
The first method is with the addition of nitrous oxyde (N2O). The concentration of oxygen is more dense with nitrous than with air alone, so more fuel can be added within the same engine displacement, leading to more force acting on the piston.
The second method is to used nitromethane (CH3NO2) as a fuel. Nitromethane is a fuel (because it has C & H) that actually carries oxygen so less air is needed and - just like for nitrous - more fuel can be burned within the same combustion chamber volume.
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