Hydrogen and oxygen used as fuel in internal combution engine

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of using hydrogen and oxygen as fuel in internal combustion engines, exploring the potential benefits and challenges associated with this approach. The scope includes technical considerations, material limitations, and comparisons to alternative energy systems such as fuel cells.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that hydrogen and oxygen could be pollution-free fuels for internal combustion engines.
  • Others argue that hydrogen must be produced through energy-intensive processes like electrolysis, raising questions about the source of that energy.
  • Concerns are raised about hydrogen's lower specific energy density compared to hydrocarbon fuels and the challenges of storing hydrogen at high pressures or low temperatures.
  • One participant mentions that hydrogen embrittlement affects metals used in current engines, potentially compromising their strength and durability.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that fuel cells are preferred over piston engines for hydrogen due to their higher efficiency.
  • It is noted that while hydrogen has a greater energy density when compressed, this compression requires additional energy and presents material challenges at high temperatures.
  • Advanced materials may allow for the development of engines capable of handling the thermal stresses associated with hydrogen combustion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the viability of using hydrogen and oxygen in internal combustion engines, with no consensus reached on the feasibility or practicality of this approach.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on energy sources for hydrogen production, unresolved issues related to material performance under high thermal stresses, and the complexity of hydrogen storage solutions.

shivakumar06
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why cannot hydrogen and oxygen not used in internal combution engine as fuel? it would be pollution free.
 
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It can be, but you have to get the hydrogen from somewhere, typically through chemical separation processes such as electrolysis. So Hydrogen is not available to be mined or drilled, it must be made (separated) using energy. Where that energy comes from is another problem.

Additionally, hydrogen has a much lower specific energy density than hydrocarbon fuels, and it's difficult to store in large amounts compared to gasoline or diesel because it requires high pressures and/or low temperatures to get the density up. Metals used in engines today also have problems with hydrogen embrittlement which reduce their strength and wear properties.

These are just a few of the problems.
 
One idea behind hydrogen is that it can be consumed in a fuel cell, whose efficiency is better than a thermal engine. So engineers and companies don't invest time in piston engines for hydrogen and go directly to fuel cells.
 
energy density of hydrogen is much greater than that of gasolene but only when it is compressed to a high pressure which requires external energy. and reasons mentioned by Mech Engineer.
Materials which can take up such high thermal stresses does not exists because metals suffer with hydrogen embrittlement at high temperatures and non metals like ceramic and plastic are not tough enough and melt respectively.
With advanced materials used in turbine blades with efficient cooling, such engines can be made.
 

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