Why derivative of a closed real function is continous on open interval

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which the derivative of a closed real function is continuous on an open interval. Participants explore the implications of continuity and differentiability, particularly focusing on examples and definitions related to real functions defined on closed intervals.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the derivative f'(x) may not exist or be continuous without stronger assumptions on the function f(x) than mere continuity on a closed interval.
  • Examples such as f(x) = |x| and f(x) = x^3 are presented to illustrate cases where the derivative is not continuous or does not exist at certain points.
  • There is a discussion about whether continuity of f on [a, b] implies differentiability on (a, b), with some participants asserting that it does not.
  • Participants mention the necessity of proving that left and right hand limits are equal for the derivative to exist at a point within the open interval.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definition of the derivative and its applicability at the endpoints of the interval, with emphasis on the limitations of defining derivatives at the boundaries.
  • One participant raises the question of one-sided derivatives at the endpoints -1 and 1 for functions defined on [-1, 1].

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not agree on the implications of continuity for differentiability, with multiple competing views on the necessary conditions for the existence and continuity of derivatives.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of continuity and differentiability, as well as the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps involved in proving these properties.

ManishR
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consider a real function f(x) where x\in[a,b]
Why
f'(x),\; x\in(a,b)
 
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f'(x) may not even exist, much less be continuous. You need much stronger assumptions on f(x) than just being defined on a closed interval.
 
mathman said:
f'(x) may not even exist, much less be continuous. You need much stronger assumptions on f(x) than just being defined on a closed interval.

f'(x) does exist. forgot to mention in OP.

let f(x) = x^3 ?
 
Last edited:
Let f(x)=|x| for -1≤x≤1. f'(x) is discontinuous at 0.
 
ok i think i may have misunderstood something.

let say f is continuous on the closed interval [a,b]

does it implies that f is differentiable on the open interval (a,b) .
 
No. f(x)=|x| on [-1,1] is continuous, but it's not differentiable at 0.
 
Office_Shredder said:
No. f(x)=|x| on [-1,1] is continuous, but it's not differentiable at 0.

if f(x) range is [-1,1]
does
f'(x) exist at -1 and 1
or
f(x) is differentiable at -1 and 1.
 
mathman and shredder are right. You need stronger conditions that zeroth level continuity. For derivatives to exist for single variable real functions you need to prove that the left and right hand limits are equal for all values in the open set (a,b).

In analysis there are pretty rigorous definitions for this kind of thing. If you have started calculus, then showing that the appropriate limits from both sides should be sufficient
 
By definition the derivative of a function in a point c is

lim [f(c+h)-f(c)]/h
h->0

If the limit exist we can say that the derivative in point c is the result of the limit, but if a limit exists them the left and right hand limits are equal as chiro said.

If you are working on a [a,b] you can not define the derivative of f in a or b because of the definition of limit (epsilon-delta definition) since the function is not defined in a +- delta interval around a or b, but working of (a,b) is totally legal because exists a delta interval around any point in (a,b) where the function is defined .
In a the left hand limit does not exist because of definition them the derivative of f in a it is not defined.
The derivative function is a function that assigns to x the derivative of f in x, so for an interval [a,b] if we can get the derivative of f we get it at most just in the interval (a,b), so the derivative function is just defined in (a,b).

x^(1/2) is defined in x=0, but the derivative does not exist in x=0 because the limit does not exist, because an interval -δ<0<δ with δ>0, where the function is defined does not exist since x^(1/2) is not defined for x<0.

Everything I wrote is for single variable real functions.
 
  • #10
ManishR said:
if f(x) range is [-1,1]
does
f'(x) exist at -1 and 1
or
f(x) is differentiable at -1 and 1.
Are you talking about the "one-sided" derivatives? That is:
\displaytype \lim_{h\to 0^+} \frac{f(-1+h)- f(-1)}{h}
and
\displaytype \lim_{h\to 0^-} \frac{f(1+h)- f(1)}{h}
 

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