Why Did MIT Sever Ties with Walter Lewin?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around MIT's decision to sever ties with retired professor Walter Lewin following allegations of sexual harassment. Participants explore the implications of removing Lewin's lecture videos and course materials from online platforms, debating the appropriateness of this action in relation to the alleged misconduct.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern that removing Lewin's lecture videos punishes students who benefited from his teaching, rather than addressing the alleged misconduct directly.
  • Others argue that MIT's actions are justified as a means of preventing further inappropriate behavior and maintaining institutional integrity.
  • A few participants question the fairness of linking Lewin's past work to his alleged actions, suggesting that academic contributions should not be judged by personal conduct.
  • Some express uncertainty about the details of the allegations and the evidence behind MIT's decision, indicating a lack of clarity in the situation.
  • There is a discussion about the broader implications of MIT's decision, with comparisons made to historical figures and the potential consequences of disavowing scientific contributions based on personal conduct.
  • Several participants reflect on their changing opinions regarding the appropriateness of MIT's response, indicating a dynamic discussion with evolving viewpoints.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether MIT's decision to remove Lewin's videos is appropriate or excessive. Multiple competing views remain regarding the implications of this action and the relationship between personal conduct and academic contributions.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the specifics of the allegations against Lewin and the evidence that led to MIT's decision. There is also a recognition that the discussion is influenced by differing perspectives on institutional responsibility and moral standards.

  • #31
Nikitin said:
MIT chooses to be uncompromising when it comes to morals, even at a loss to them, and I personally respect them for that.

Not sure what losses MIT faces, but folks and institutions depending on the Fall 1999 8.01 courseware right now might feel differently.
 
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  • #32
I like to be harassed but no one ever does it to me. It looks like harassing men target only naive girls.
What MIT is doing seems to show people worldwide that its people are all clean. Symbolic!
 
  • #33
Medicol said:
I like to be harassed but no one ever does it to me.
:oldlaugh:
 
  • #34
Medicol said:
I like to be harassed but no one ever does it to me.

By definition, no you don't

Harassment (/həˈræsmənt/ or /ˈhærəsmənt/) covers a wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing.
 
  • #35
But, AFAIK, these are still allegations. The case has not gone to court yet. So it is tricky, because if the allegation does not hold, then Lewin will be the one who will be damaged (reputation-wise). So they maybe should have kept the lectures up at least until the issue is fully solved.
 
  • #36
Pete Cortez said:
Not sure what losses MIT faces, but folks and institutions depending on the Fall 1999 8.01 courseware right now might feel differently.

what I meant was that they will garner controversy and loose allot of quality material from their site. After all, they could have just hushed the thing up and removed Lewin's emiratus title quietly. That would allow them to keep the material as well as not make a big deal out of this. Instead, however, they chose to put everything out in the open.

personally I am very disappointed in Lewin, but we should hear his side of the story too. It might be that he has finally gone looney, not that he is a sexual predator.
 
  • #37
Nikitin said:
what I meant was that they will garner controversy and loose allot of quality material from their site. After all, they could have just hushed the thing up and removed Lewin's emiratus title quietly. That would allow them to keep the material as well as not make a big deal out of this. Instead, however, they chose to put everything out in the open.

personally I am very disappointed in Lewin, but we should hear his side of the story too. It might be that he has finally gone looney, not that he is a sexual predator.

Why are you disappointed already if you have not yet heard his side?
 
  • #38
WWGD said:
Why are you disappointed already if you have not yet heard his side?
Because I don't doubt that he did something bad. After all, MIT has all the data and I assume they did a thorough investigation. What I am curious about are the actual circumstances around the case.
 
  • #39
WWGD said:
The case has not gone to court yet

Who says anything about a case going to court? Lewin was investigated by MIT for violating MIT policy (where the standard is much lower than for a criminal trial - essentially "more likely than not") and it was found that he did. As far as MIT is concerned, he did it, and they will take action, whether or not there is also a case in the courts.
 
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  • #40
Vanadium 50 said:
Who says anything about a case going to court? Lewin was investigated by MIT for violating MIT policy (where the standard is much lower than for a criminal trial - essentially "more likely than not") and it was found that he did. As far as MIT is concerned, he did it, and they will take action, whether or not there is also a case in the courts.

The U.S. is pretty fair when it comes to money...if he is at all impacted despite his mitigation...and found not guilty in criminal court...is a good argument civilly. hmmmmm...ah ha defamation.

Where does the case law draw the line between defamation of a professional and their employers policy on...what ever.

Cause what I saw in this thread is people intuit his guilt via MIT actions on him. MIT called him a sexual bad guy...and what on Earth does that mean?
 
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  • #41
nitsuj said:
criminal court

Lewin has not been charged with a crime, so I don't see how a criminal court will get in the picture.
 
  • #42
Vanadium 50 said:
Lewin has not been charged with a crime, so I don't see how a criminal court will get in the picture.

I was editing that post while you replied. here's the additional comment.

Where does the case law draw the line between defamation of a professional by their employers policy on harassment.

Cause what I saw in this thread is people intuit his guilt via MIT actions on him. MIT called him a sexual bad guy...and what on Earth does that mean?

If the punishment is public, shouldn't MIT be forced to disclose the details to some authority?
 
  • #43
But, I mean, he had no problems, at least none reported for 43 years of his career, at least according to the Wiki page. Shouldn't that count for something in his favor?
 
  • #44
Nikitin said:
what I meant was that they will garner controversy and loose allot of quality material from their site.

Not sure I follow. How would OCW lose quality material? I assume you mean by some method other than its curators' electing to take it down as it did for the Fall 1999 8.01 material.
 
  • #45
nitsuj said:
If the punishment is public, shouldn't MIT be forced to disclose the details to some authority?
No, everyone involved probably prefers privacy.
 
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  • #46
WWGD said:
But, I mean, he had no problems, at least none reported for 43 years of his career, at least according to the Wiki page. Shouldn't that count for something in his favor?
Wiki isn't a credible source, since wiki pages can be edited by anyone.
 
  • #47
It says that he "sexually harassed someone online". How do you sexually harass someone online? Unless she was underage, this reeks of some bullshit to me. Is there any woman here who would claim that if some proffessor was making them uncomfortable ONLINE that they wouldn't just cease contact with him, but instead try to ruin the man's life?
 
  • #48
russ_watters said:
No, everyone involved probably prefers privacy.

So that implies the accused too; so this an example of admitting guilt by being quite. Also is privacy from the law allowed? If someone did a criminal act, does it really a matter if the victim decides not to "press charges", can't an authority of sorts do that?
 
  • #49
dipole said:
It says that he "sexually harassed someone online". How do you sexually harass someone online? Unless she was underage, this reeks of some bullshit to me. Is there any woman here who would claim that if some proffessor was making them uncomfortable ONLINE that they wouldn't just cease contact with him, but instead try to ruin the man's life?

Was the "victim" a subordinate? If yes, then think it through...hint-repeatedly

also "ruined life" doesn't have any objective definition. MIT didn't punish him via reducing his "well being" from a health perspective.
 
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  • #50
dipole said:
It says that he "sexually harassed someone online". How do you sexually harass someone online? Unless she was underage, this reeks of some bullshit to me. Is there any woman here who would claim that if some proffessor was making them uncomfortable ONLINE that they wouldn't just cease contact with him, but instead try to ruin the man's life?

Whew. Not sure where to start...

It's not only possible, but common to sexually harass someone online, using sexually suggestive emails or private messages, for example. I take it you're not female if you've never received one. It happens frequently, and it's pathetic.

But it leaves a trail, of course. So it would be trivially simple to obtain evidence.

I agree harassing underage people is especially heinous, but there is no age at which a person loses protection from harassment.

You think the proper way to handle this is to require the student to stop taking the class or pursuing that line of knowledge, and the professor should be allowed to stay and carry on? Well, students aren't there to be some professor's "prize", and I don't care how famous or well-liked the professor, or how great he is as a lecturer.

Ruin the man's life? If there is such strong evidence that school administrators 86'ed Lewin, it's a good bet he ruined his own life.
 
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  • #51
lisab said:
Wiki isn't a credible source, since wiki pages can be edited by anyone.

But since he is being accused, I believe accusers should prove this is not so, i.e., provide evidence that this has happened before.
But I agree Lewin himself should try to dispute the charges if he thinks they are false.
 
  • #52
russ_watters said:
No, everyone involved probably prefers privacy.

But I don't think it is , or should be just a matter of preference. What if Lewin decides to go to court, would the accuser's name remain private?
 
  • #53
WWGD said:
But, I mean, he had no problems, at least none reported for 43 years of his career, at least according to the Wiki page. Shouldn't that count for something in his favor?

If you will tolerate sexual harassment for people under certain circumstances, you do not have a zero tolerance policy. That's hard to argue with. Now, you could argue that there shouldn't be a zero tolerance policy, but then I would turn around and say "when should you tolerate it?"
 
  • #54
Vanadium 50 said:
If you will tolerate sexual harassment for people under certain circumstances, you do not have a zero tolerance policy. That's hard to argue with. Now, you could argue that there shouldn't be a zero tolerance policy, but then I would turn around and say "when should you tolerate it?"

I am not so sure zero-tolerance policies are the best answers in all situations. I can understand why they are desirable, but the world is a complicated place and it is difficult to come up with any rule that will effectively-address every possible situation one may run into; so it is back to a case-by-case, or at least having some flexibility on when/how to enforce rules. I understand the can of worms that opens, but there are also problems with zero tolerance .
It is just hard to believe that (assuming what the Wiki page says is correct) someone who has not done anything wrong would start doing so at 78 years of age, after 43 years with a spotless record. Things don't usually happen that way; crime/misconduct (strongly) correlate negatively with age for those who have a clean record.
 
  • #55
Vanadium 50 said:
If you will tolerate sexual harassment for people under certain circumstances, you do not have a zero tolerance policy. That's hard to argue with. Now, you could argue that there shouldn't be a zero tolerance policy, but then I would turn around and say "when should you tolerate it?"

You don't tolerate it, you have degrees of punishment. If we can have degrees of punishment for murder surely we can do the same for sexual harassment in a socially acceptable way.
 
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  • #56
Usually a murder case will go beyond the boundaries of MIT, where we do have varying degrees of punishment for sexual harassment (eg different "levels" of sex offender status, or no punishment at all for that matter). MIT undoubtedly has a zero tolerance policy for murder as well, so there's no inconsistency involved.
 
  • #57
Tobias Funke said:
Usually a murder case will go beyond the boundaries of MIT, where we do have varying degrees of punishment for sexual harassment (eg different "levels" of sex offender status, or no punishment at all for that matter). MIT undoubtedly has a zero tolerance policy for murder as well, so there's no inconsistency involved.

Well, a better analogy would be using that of causing someone's death; murder is too specific. I would assume that accidentally causing
someone's death or negligence would be punished differently than something like voluntary manslaughter, or murder. But I don't think NSA
Spook is saying that there is an inconsistency; he is suggesting different degrees of "malfeasance" be punished differently, or that the punishment be proportional to the extent of the malfeasance, which makes sense to me. I still think the fact that (if verified) Lewin has no prior record strongly suggests the harassment, if any, was not a serious one; it is known that as anyone with a clean record ages, the probability of committing a crime decreases.
 
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  • #58
Tobias Funke said:
Usually a murder case will go beyond the boundaries of MIT, where we do have varying degrees of punishment for sexual harassment (eg different "levels" of sex offender status, or no punishment at all for that matter). MIT undoubtedly has a zero tolerance policy for murder as well, so there's no inconsistency involved.

Sure there seems to be no inconsistency involved with tolerance of crime. If the professor had actually committed a criminal act you would think that MIT would be bound to report it to the police so they would not be liable for possible criminal behavior. Because this is usually a civil manner there is usually a monetary advantage to all involved to keep the facts secret that makes it hard to honestly judge if the punishment was proportional to the acts for something like jokes of a sexual nature or was something more serious like adverse acts.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/is-sexual-harassment-workplace-a-crime.htm
 
  • #59
nsaspook said:
You don't tolerate it, you have degrees of punishment.

MIT would define tolerance as continuing to allow (i.e. "tolerate") the offender to represent MIT. MIT has decided that they do not want to do this in the case of sexual harassment. They could have decided to add "unless he's a really, really good teacher, in which case we expect the person harassed to take it - for the greater good, you see." But they did not.
 
  • #60
The last place I worked had a 'zero tolerance' rule. one of our best trainers was fired because a new hire he was training was about to be fired, so the new hire complained that the trainer had made a joke that he found inappropriate, it wasn't inappropriate at all (I don't remember it now, but the other students in the class told us the joke and it was fine. But the company was afraid of trouble caused by the new hire, so they fired the manager. He did nothing wrong. And the new hire was fired a few weeks later, he didn't pass training.

Just saying that we cannot assume that Lewin actually did anything that was intentionally offensive, but they don't want to risk a lawsuit.
 
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