Why Did MIT Sever Ties with Walter Lewin?

[Silicon Waffle]

The last place I worked had a 'zero tolerance' rule. one of our best trainers was fired because a new hire he was training was about to be fired, so the new hire complained that the trainer had made a joke that he found inappropriate, it wasn't inappropriate at all (I don't remember it now, but the other students in the class told us the joke and it was fine. But the company was afraid of trouble caused by the new hire, so they fired the manager. He did nothing wrong. And the new hire was fired a few weeks later, he didn't pass training...

I'd rather work in a dull morgue than in a place where all of its people are cold-hearted.
If one doesn't like someone else's joke then be straight e.g "C'mon Walter, I don't like your joke, please stop." I think he'll stop. We can't stop jokers from making more jokes. All jokers I have met are funny extroverts. You can't fire them because they slap your butt once while making a joke to encourage you to work better.

 

[Evo]

It was devastating, not only did the trainer do no wrong, his reputation was ruined, his career was ruined, his life was ruined, all for nothing. Just because the company had a "zero tolerance' rule which meant anyone that complained about anything was right, and just fire the manager, end of story. Problem fixed.

 

[Nikitin]

The last place I worked had a 'zero tolerance' rule. one of our best trainers was fired because a new hire he was training was about to be fired, so the new hire complained that the trainer had made a joke that he found inappropriate, it wasn't inappropriate at all (I don't remember it now, but the other students in the class told us the joke and it was fine. But the company was afraid of trouble caused by the new hire, so they fired the manager. He did nothing wrong. And the new hire was fired a few weeks later, he didn't pass training.

Just saying that we cannot assume that Lewin actually did anything that was intentionally offensive, but they don't want to risk a lawsuit.

wow that sounds ridiculous. What was the joke?

 

[nitsuj]

It was devastating, not only did the trainer do no wrong, his reputation was ruined, his career was ruined, his life was ruined, all for nothing. Just because the company had a "zero tolerance' rule which meant anyone that complained about anything was right, and just fire the manager, end of story. Problem fixed.

Is there no way for him to go after the employer for his financial loss (mitigated)?

My understanding of the "law" would be company XYZ hire Justin "the flirt". And during the course of coworkers getting to know me it's found I'm more flirty than an average person. So long as my behavior isn't corrected, it's deemed "acceptable". I cannot be "tricked" into one day it is not, even if the complaint is from the "new girl".

effectively one person should not have the power to "not only did the trainer do no wrong, his reputation was ruined, his career was ruined, his life was ruined," over hearsay harassment, which by definition includes repetition.

In the U.S. can people be fired/"let go" for no reason?

 

[Vanadium 50]

You can't fire them because they slap your butt once while making a joke to encourage you to work better.

Actually, you most assuredly can.

 

[nitsuj]

Actually, you most assuredly can.

But(t) that's what Joey "butt slapper" does? You're going to fire him out of the blue now? Give Joey the opportunity to demonstrate it was not "harassment".

 

[Vanadium 50]

Let's not confuse things. Zero Tolerance is a statement about penalties. And yes, I agree it can go overboard (like the kid who was expelled for taking the knife away from the other kid who was using it to self-injure), but if you don't have it, you immediately run into the question of what to tolerate and what not to. "First offenders" might be first offenders, or they might be people who have successfully intimidated people they have harassed in the past into not reporting it. We've heard the argument that since Lewin is a really good lecturer, MIT should look the other way. If they had a really, really good lecturer, should he be allowed to get away with even more? What about a really, really, really good lecturer?

The other question is one of investigation. As Evo points out, a slipshod investigation is unjust. I see no evidence that this investigation was anything other than thorough (and knowing some of the people involved, I expect it was complete and fair), and I haven't read any complaints here other than that people didn't like the outcome.

As far as our hypothetical butt-patter, having one's butt patted should not be a condition of employment. If I were "Pat McCann's" supervisor, I would follow whatever the company policy was. If it were termination after one offense, and that offense was substantiated, yes, I would fire him.

 

[russ_watters]

It was devastating, not only did the trainer do no wrong, his reputation was ruined, his career was ruined, his life was ruined, all for nothing. Just because the company had a "zero tolerance' rule which meant anyone that complained about anything was right, and just fire the manager, end of story. Problem fixed.

Couldn't he sue if the policy was misapplied?

 

[Dr Transport]

Zero tolerance is zero tolerance..., now, if MIT Determined there was cause, they have the right to terminate their relationship with the faculty member, emeritus or not and they obviously reserve the right to remove all references to the individual..

If criminal charges have not been filled, that is one thing, but the threshold for civil damages is much lower. If MIT didn't sever ties, they could be held partially responsible in a civil trial later.

 

[lisab]

Lots of talk of law suits in this thread. It's not available in all states. Where I live, Washington, is a "work at will" state, sometimes called "At-will Employment":

At-will employment is a term used in U.S. labor law for contractual relationships in which an employee can be dismissed by an employer for any reason (that is, without having to establish "just cause" for termination), and without warning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

That article states Massachusetts is an "Implied-in-law Contract" state. It seems that how the law is interpreted relies on precedent:

Court interpretations of this have varied from requiring "just cause" to denial of terminations made for malicious reasons, such as terminating a long-tenured employee solely to avoid the obligation of paying the employee's accrued retirement benefits. Other court rulings have denied the exception, holding that it is too burdensome upon the court for it to have to determine an employer's true motivation for terminating an employee.

 

[russ_watters]

My confusion about the lawsuit issue comes from the difference between "without having to" and "did". In a case of sexual harassment, the reason for termination is clear, so no guesswork is requried. Even if they don't have to state a reason for firing the person, but they do state one, is that still acceptable if the reason for firing them is unjust?

 

[edward]

I noticed that the videos were removed indefinitely. That doesn't necessarily mean permanently.

Judging by the "report a bad guy" information located at the bottom of this link MIT has a sexual misconduct problem in general that goes far beyond Lewin.

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/lewin-courses-removed-1208

 

[DarthMatter]

Well, I don't want to be disrespectful to either Walter Lewin or the students he supposedly harassed, but maybe he is just getting old. My grandfather did similar things as he was developing Alzheimer. Can someone who cannot control himself be a professor at MIT? No. Should someone who cannot control himself because of an illness be drawn into publicity as a 'sexual harasser'? The answer to me also is no. Is Walter Lewin losing his mind because of his old age? I don't know.

 

[Silicon Waffle]

Hi everyone, I'd really love to read what Walter did write to the girl.

 

[DarthMatter]

I guess it will not be published. You could give NSA a call though.

 

[Silicon Waffle]

As a matter of fact, almost all old men (those of over 70) can't have sex anymore. Walter is over 80, the story that tells he got hit on a young student sounds odd enough to me. The complainant might be acting as an innocent cute girl though I think she could definitely hurt him with her push.

 

[DarthMatter]

All people deserve protection from harassment, and I would not assume the girls/women complained with no reason. It does not really matter if you can physically have sex. A professor-student relationship is also one with a very profound difference in power, which will naturally make you feel forced to agree to whatever the powerful person wants to do. But you also never can read someone's mind. I think talking to each other, making things clear often does more good than brutal punishment. While the consequences may be the right ones to draw, the public announcement goes too far for me.

Since it was not said what he did exactly, people will make up their own fantasies now. Which can be far worse than what actually happened.

 

[Medicol]

As a matter of fact, almost all old men (those of over 70) can't have sex anymore. Walter is over 80, the story that tells he got hit on a young student sounds odd enough to me. The complainant might be acting as an innocent cute girl though I think she could definitely hurt him with her push.

Using authorized or unauthorized power and even physical strength to control (physically or mentally) people of lower positions or smaller body sizes is also considered sexual harassment, irrespective of gender in general.

 

[lisab]

As a matter of fact, almost all old men (those of over 70) can't have sex anymore. Walter is over 80, the story that tells he got hit on a young student sounds odd enough to me. The complainant might be acting as an innocent cute girl though I think she could definitely hurt him with her push.

Sexual harassment has nothing to do with how well a man's penis works.

 

[logan3]

The last place I worked had a 'zero tolerance' rule. one of our best trainers was fired because a new hire he was training was about to be fired, so the new hire complained that the trainer had made a joke that he found inappropriate, it wasn't inappropriate at all (I don't remember it now, but the other students in the class told us the joke and it was fine. But the company was afraid of trouble caused by the new hire, so they fired the manager. He did nothing wrong. And the new hire was fired a few weeks later, he didn't pass training.

Just saying that we cannot assume that Lewin actually did anything that was intentionally offensive, but they don't want to risk a lawsuit.

I agree. My first reaction was of disgust over his actions. But recalling the nature of how outlandish online discourse is these days combined with ultra-PC and zero-policy attitudes, I have no idea how bad any of what he actually did was.

 

[dipole]

Whew. Not sure where to start...

It's not only possible, but common to sexually harass someone online, using sexually suggestive emails or private messages, for example. I take it you're not female if you've never received one. It happens frequently, and it's pathetic.

But it leaves a trail, of course. So it would be trivially simple to obtain evidence.

I agree harassing underage people is especially heinous, but there is no age at which a person loses protection from harassment.

You think the proper way to handle this is to require the student to stop taking the class or pursuing that line of knowledge, and the professor should be allowed to stay and carry on? Well, students aren't there to be some professor's "prize", and I don't care how famous or well-liked the professor, or how great he is as a lecturer.

Ruin the man's life? If there is such strong evidence that school administrators 86'ed Lewin, it's a good bet he ruined his own life.

So suppose some old man made a flirtatious comment to a young girl, as old men occasionally do. Say a cute girl at the check-out line. Should he immediately be arrested? Suppose this check-out line was at the cafeteria at work, so the girl was technically an employee, should he immediately be fired for sexual harassment?

You position seems to indicate you think "yes!" to both. What if that old man was you grandfather (or even father depending on how old you are). Do you honestly think no one in your family, or even your own son/husband (if you're married/have children) has never done or said something that could technically be viewed as sexual harassment? Do you think they deserved to be fired for it? After all it was their own fault!

You come across like you're assuming Walter Lewin viciously and lewdly molested some girl verbally through the internet, and that he deserved what he got. My guess, based on the nature of many physics professors I know and the way Lewin comes across in his videos, is he probably made some playful/flirtatious remarks to a female student, possibly without even fully realizing what he was saying since physics professors are not always the most socially aware people, and given the current ultra-liberal, P.C., and frankly spineless environment that exists in many academic circles, he was axed for it. Until I see a transcript of the e-mail, I will have a very difficult time believing that a highly respected and frankly beloved aging physics professor is some kind of sexual fiend creeping out on young students. And that position is, at worst, no less baseless than whatever position you've taken where you seem to support destroying a man's career so freely.

 

[DarthMatter]

If it wasn't something really severe, a more sensible approach may have been to just force him to retire completely silently, for 'personal reasons'. His career was nearly over no matter what. But since we don't know what actually happened we can only guess.

 

[russ_watters]

So suppose some old man made a flirtatious comment to a young girl, as old men occasionally do. Say a cute girl at the check-out line. Should he immediately be arrested? Suppose this check-out line was at the cafeteria at work, so the girl was technically an employee, should he immediately be fired for sexual harassment?

You position seems to indicate you think "yes!" to both.

Dipole, your description/example for both the law and corporate rules bears little resemblance to the reality of how sexual harassment works and your assumption about Lisa's position doesn't follow at all from what she has said in the thread. Basically, anywhere you could have softened the action and hardened the reaction, you did. I think you need to reboot and try again from scratch.

 

[zoki85]

So much babbling and nobody knows what exactly has happend

 

[WannabeNewton]

Until I see a transcript of the e-mail, I will have a very difficult time believing that a highly respected and frankly beloved aging physics professor is some kind of sexual fiend creeping out on young students. And that position is, at worst, no less baseless than whatever position you've taken where you seem to support destroying a man's career so freely.

People like you are the reason so many women have a hard time coming forward with sexual harassment claims against "reputed" individuals like Lewin. That I've personally known a handful of girls who have been victims of sexual harassment frankly makes your attitude just infuriating.

You certainly don't understand how sexual harassment works if you think it can't happen over the internet but the least you could do is give the woman the benefit of the doubt so that more women actually gain the confidence to report people like Lewin in the face of comments exactly such as yours.

 

[WWGD]

People like you are the reason so many women have a hard time coming forward with sexual harassment claims against "reputed" individuals like Lewin. That I've personally known a handful of girls who have been victims of sexual harassment frankly makes your attitude just infuriating.

You certainly don't understand how sexual harassment works if you think it can't happen over the internet but the least you could do is give the woman the benefit of the doubt so that more women actually gain the confidence to report people like Lewin in the face of comments exactly such as yours.

As Zoki 85 says: do you know the details of what happened? How about false reports of sexual harassment because of people
who encourage them to believe that harassment is under reported. Both are problematic.

There is an element of subjectivity to harassment that few seem to take into account. I am
not saying the real thing never happens, but there is room for misunderstanding and crossed
signals too.

 

[russ_watters]

As Zoki 85 says: do you know the details of what happened? How about false reports of sexual harassment because of people
who encourage them to believe that harassment is under reported. Both are problematic.

Ask yourself which is easier.

 

[jack476]

I am deeply sad that it would have come to this. Walter Lewin was something of an idol to me when I was in high school and watching his physics lectures. He was such a fantastic teacher and he was instrumental in my decision to study physics. I still look up the cat fur trick he did in his electromagnetism course for laughs, our Society of Physics Students chapter does it for touring high school students and every time it gets a great reaction.

If they went so far as to pull his OCW videos the nature of the complaint must have been very bad. I have deep respect for Dr Lewin, but when I volunteered with my college's crisis hotline last year I had a few anonymous callers who were female students who had been hit on by professors, and the fear it caused was very real. I'm not sure if pulling the videos was a good move given how many people use them, but I can only say that I am very upset that this could have happened.

 

[WWGD]

Ask yourself which is easier.

While I oppose rape and I don't deny the real thing happens, I don't want to get into another argument on today's feminism. But I think the issue is more complicated than you believe:

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-19/how-many-rape-reports-are-false:

"...If a rape kit shows evidence of sexual intercourse, however, all that tells you is that … something happened..."

"... Feminists would like to rectify that unfairness by treating rape accusations as presumptively true, making it easier for victims to come forward. That’s understandable. But there’s a risk that this makes it easier for false accusations to get through the system, resulting in destroyed lives for men such as Brian Banks. Men’s-rights activists would like to make it harder for innocent men to get caught in a web of lies, so they want rape accusations to be interrogated with deep suspicion..."

Or
http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl..._why_must_be_pretend_they_never_happen.2.html

Neither source being an advocate of men's rights.

 

[Mmm_Pasta]

I think Lewin said things that can be taken as sexual harrassment online, but probably not in person. A lot of times it is the way you say something. It is hard to know someone's tone of voice online. Unfortunately, people do overreact to things and it's hard to say if the students who complained did.