News Why Did Sarah Palin Resign as Governor?

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The discussion centers around Sarah Palin's unexpected resignation as Governor of Alaska, where she announced she would not seek re-election and would transfer authority to the Lt. Governor at the end of the month. Many participants speculate on the reasons behind her decision, suggesting it could be due to a looming scandal, personal issues, or a strategic move to focus on national ambitions, particularly in light of her declining popularity and the challenges facing Alaska's economy. There are mixed opinions on her political future, with some asserting she remains a significant figure within the GOP, while others view her as a polarizing and unpopular leader. The conversation also touches on her communication skills, with critiques of her speech delivery and public persona, as well as broader discussions about the divisions within the Republican Party and the implications of her resignation for her potential 2012 presidential aspirations. Overall, the thread reflects a blend of skepticism and intrigue regarding Palin's next steps and the impact of her departure from the governorship.
  • #51
Ivan Seeking said:
I keep thinking about her statement that "only dead fish go with the flow". Could this be a result of her being on the losing side of the split within the Republican party?

WheelsRCool said:
What makes you think she is on any "losing side" of a split within the party?

...

You are over-simplifying the Republican party. What you would define as a "moderate," I define as a more Leftist Republican.

The term "ultra-conservative," what do you mean? Neither Mike Huckabee nor Sarah Palin, the religious fundamentalists, were strict fiscally conservative, limited government Republicans per se.

If you mean "ultra-conservative" as in limited government, free-market capitalism, fiscal conservativsm, strong national defense, etc...that's not really "conservative" aside from the name. It's classically liberal. Many such conservatives may believe in God, but that doesn't make them at all the same as the fundamentalists who want to ram religion down people's throats.

The ultra-conservative fundamentalists are the types who put religion first. You can be a quasi-socialist, but as long as you are a fundamentalist Christian, they'll vote you in.

I doubt she's on the losing side of a split within the Republican Party. The losing side is the moderates (Leftist Republicans, if you prefer) that have been defecting from the Republican Party and becoming independents. That's given religious conservatives a lot more clout in the Republican Party and that faction adores Palin. (Compare the percentage of "conservatives", "moderates", and "liberals" in election polling for 2000, 2004, and 2008 - they've stayed virtually constant. Then compare the percentage of "Republicans", "Independents", and "Democrats" - Democrats have had a slight increase, but are mostly pretty flat, while the number of Republicans have been decreasing as religious conservative influence has increased.)

I do agree Palin and Huckabee (and Romney, for that matter) can't really be considered ultra-conservative or religious fundamentalists if you look at their record. Alaska is a very libertarian state and you can't elected on a religious fundamentalist stand (even if Palin's personal beliefs seem a good fit for religious conservatives). Huckabee governed a state that was split between Republicans and Democrats and never would have stayed in office with an ultra-conservative stand. Romney governed the most liberal state of any of them.

The fact that all three tried to tap into the religious fundamentalist core just emphasizes which side is on the winning side in the Republican Party split.

There's another off year Congressional election to get through, and you might see what really matters in elections - the economy. If we're still in a recession, Democrats will get hammered and religious conservatives will take it as evidence that they can succeed without any moderates.

Come 2012, we'll see which side was on the winning side of the Republican split. If Romney runs as the pre-2008 Romney and Huckabee emphasizes his record in Arkansas instead of running as an ex-preacher, then the economic conservatives (Romney) or moderates (Huckabee) will have won. If all three candidates run as religious conservatives again, then I think you can conclude the Republican Party is on its way to third party status - in that case, Palin will be as good as any other candidate likely to win the Republican nomination.
 
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  • #52
D H said:
Palin quit for neither of those reasons. She just quit.

I think she is likely miscalculating things again. The better cover story would have been to tend to her family, while she goes for the geld, without saying so of course. At least she realizes that announcing she won't run again for Governor will make her less effective. But that said, she shows that her heart is not so much in public service, as it apparently is in self service. If she really had policy passion, if she really believed in this gas pipeline, or about Alaska Issues as she did when she ran, she'd stay and fight them through and ... well serve the Alaska Public.

But she's cutting and reaching for the gold ring that circumstances has placed within her reach. The thing that I think she is missing is that as Obama says there are some that are drawn to the business of politics, that treat it as just a business opportunity, and others are drawn to it for public service. Despite what Palin may say, as all politicians inevitably do whether meaning it or not, I think she is more motivated just by the business of it, and not as much by any genuine call to service. Obama for his part has certainly garnered some riches along the way, but his concerns seem much more focused on bringing policy change - apparently a missing club from Sarah's golf bag.
 
  • #53
BobG said:
I doubt she's on the losing side of a split within the Republican Party. The losing side is the moderates (Leftist Republicans, if you prefer) that have been defecting from the Republican Party and becoming independents.

One out of five people now consider themselves to be Republicans. The Republicans may still be an exclusive club, but the fact is that unless they expand their base, they are doomed to go the way of the Whigs. That is not the winning side but it what Palin represents. About 31% consider themselves to be Democrats, and 38% Independent.

That's given religious conservatives a lot more clout in the Republican Party and that faction adores Palin.

A doomed faction.

(Compare the percentage of "conservatives", "moderates", and "liberals" in election polling for 2000, 2004, and 2008 - they've stayed virtually constant. Then compare the percentage of "Republicans", "Independents", and "Democrats" - Democrats have had a slight increase, but are mostly pretty flat, while the number of Republicans have been decreasing as religious conservative influence has increased.)

Precisely! The Republican party is running out anyone but the extremists. The way they are going, they will soon have a very unified and a very small and insignificant party.

I do agree Palin and Huckabee (and Romney, for that matter) can't really be considered ultra-conservative or religious fundamentalists if you look at their record.

If you want to know if someone is a fundamenalist you have to look at their religion. She is Pentacostal for crying out loud! Have you ever been to a Pentacostal service? You get the end-time prophesies and the whole bit. In fact there was a video of Palin describing how everyone would be running to Alaska as the world ends. She even boasts that she and her fellow devotees are blessed with knowledge of the future. Mainstream Christianity has a name for that - false prophets.

The fact that all three tried to tap into the religious fundamentalist core just emphasizes which side is on the winning side in the Republican Party split.

You keep ignoring the results of the election.
 
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  • #54
Frankly, the notion that someone like Colin Powell is considered a leftist only shows how far the Republican party has sunk.
 
  • #55
The Reverend Wright issue only rang true with those who already knew that Obama was the devil incarnate. It didn't have much impact on the electorate at large. Choosing to ignore the goofy things one's pastor says but choosing to continue going to that church because the pastor is inspirational is a commonplace occurrence to which many can relate.

Would have to disagree. And he didn't just do that, he said the man was like a father figure to him, and titled one of his books after one of his sermons. The man traveled once with Farrakhan.

So you're telling me all leftists and Democrats would let it slide if say Sarah Palin attended a church of let's say some John Hagee or Rich Warren type, whom she said was like a father figure and had baptize her children and marry her to her husband, meanwhile he had once traveled with some guy who said whites should kill blacks and Jews...?

The simple fact is that the political Left became complete and total hypocrites on that one. No Republican would ever have been allowed to slide on something like that. People STILL criticize Palin for her church.

And no, you do not sit in a church because the guy is "inspirational" if he says racist and anti-American things unless you hold similar views, I know I wouldn't anyway.

Palin's move will be viewed by the public at large as proof that she is not qualified to serve as president.

Perhaps.

Choosing to quit one's job because its not fun anymore is also something to which many can relate.

The thing is, did she quit because it wasn't "fun" or because she couldn't do it properly anymore due to all the ethics charges and so forth?

Most of us don't follow this urge because we know that doing so is a career killer. Those who do follow this urge find a new career. Palin's move was a career killer. She needs to find a new career

Time will tell.

The trouble is that Sarah Palin has her Reverend Muthee and her End of Days Congregation up there in Wasilla. She has Reverend Wright problems up to her eyeballs.

I haven't seen anything racist or prejudiced from her church. If they believe in the End of Days, whatever, that's their belief. No different than the similar End of Days the global warming fearmongers currently in charge believe in. The Reverand Wright issue was because he said racist and anti-American things, had a history that suggested racism, and the hypocrisy the left showed on this; the mainstream media, they were going to cover that whole thing up! Do you really think they would have done so with a Republican? NO WAY.

Obama gave confidence that he understands what he says. That if called upon he can actually solve a problem intelligently.

Sure, that's how he seemed. But how one "sounds" or "seems" means little, all that matters is how much one actually knows, and the truth is Barack Obama was horribly qualified to be President. He had a very poor knowledge of the issues and no one in the media ever asked him any real questions, like how will you pay for your healthcare, how will you tackle global warming without harming the economy, how will you fix education, etc...he avoided like the plague the network he knew would ask him such questions, Fox News, except for Bill O'Reilly, whom he had to go on because he'd promised, in which he only allowed a very short interview and couldn't really answer any of the questions in detail.

For whatever reason, he still cannot even admit he was wrong on the surge, of which there is nothing to be ashamed of, considering the entire foreign policy establishment, the Pentagon, the Iraq Study Group, and both Republicans and Democrats were against initially.

He also never was able to explain his desire to "spread the wealth" and how that is not socialist. He ran as a hardcore leftist for the most part, which clearly showed him as either an ideologue or someone willing to say whatever needs to be said to get elected to power.

Poor Sarah Palin puts lipstick on Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich prose without apparently really grasping what she's talking about.

It isn't that tough to understand the basic principles she was talking about. She just needs more in-depth knowledge of the issues, but had no more or less than Barack Obama and Biden at the time. And she clearly knew just as much, or more, than Joseph Biden in their debate.

I'd say her body of work speaks for itself. Leaving aside her fractured academic career, anyone that would even suggest that because Alaska borders Russia across the Arctic Ocean, that qualifies her as having foreign policy experience, ... or when Putin raises his head ... or she can see Russia ... These are sophomoric statements that even most couch potato-heads find sub-par.

Even her withdrawal for the Governorship yesterday reveals a rambling declaration that raises more questions about her political sense than it answers questions about what she's really planning on doing. She seems ready to borrow from other sources like Reagan and Gingrich, but she shows little aptitude for any real analysis ... preferring to rely on ignorance and parochial simplification, like drill baby drill, that may appeal to the folks in her state, but doesn't by any stretch begin to deal with solving energy problems.

Palin said in her speech at the RNC she was fully aware drilling alone will not solve our energy problems.

I'd say Barack Obama never explained how carbon cap-and-trade magically will fix our energy problems though. Also, have you ever considered that the reason she may have resigned is so she can actually concentrate on studying the issues in-depth, something that may be rather impossible right now when she can't even really do her job as governor at the moment?

Is she an intelligent mother and caring adult for her family, she probably is, but her family does show some remarkable lapses and departure from the dogma of the conservative values that she publicly embraces.

Sometimes one can be a fabulous parent and the children will still be screwy.

This recent talking-point slur by the radical right has long puzzled me. Do they not know that all of their talking heads and politicians all read from pre-prepared material presented on teleprompters rather than paper also? They do know that, right?

Yes, but most politicians are not so completely dependent on the Tele-Prompter that they are completely inept without one. Bill Clinton certainly had no problem winging it if he needed to. President Obama flat-out cannot speak without a Tele-Prompter. I mean he can but he struggles greatly. This isn't to say he's an idiot, I'm just pointing out about speaking.

Watch an Obama White House briefing and you'd realize he can speak just fine without a script. Do these people forget the library of books published featuring Bush's inability to speak coherently at all?

I have watched plenty of them and no he does not speak well without one. He also doesn't debate. He only allows a reporter to get the microphone, ask a question, upon which then the microphone is removed. He doesn't allow for any kind of sparring or debate really.

And yes, Republicans were fully aware of George W. Bush's bad speaking ability. But no one ever claimed he was a great speaker.

So to you, Wheels, I suggest you watch the Palin interviews with Katie Couric in which Palin wasn't reading from a teleprompter (which she was during her campaign speeches at rallies, by the way) and see how coherent and capable of speaking unaided she is.

Actually, during her speech at the RNC, her Tele-Prompter froze up midway through and she had to go from memory for the rest of the speech. If she knows the subject, she seems to have no problem speaking from memory, although I'd say she still has some work to do. It just takes practice. You need to take a look at some videos of what happened to President Obama when his Tele-Prompter either froze or went off script.

Find out if she can even name one of the many, many newspapers she reads.

Stupid flub she should have been prepared for.

For that matter, watch her announcement yesterday and see if you can make any sense of what the woman says.

Her pitch and tone on that one went up and down too much was the problem there.

Since most things written can easily have been written by someone else we have little choice but to go by how a politician speaks. I would also say their educational background but Palin's is rather spotty so I'll leave off and go by what I can see before me.

Speaking ability is not what you by. You go by knowledge. That's it. Educational background can be counted, but ultimately is meaningless when it comes to something like the Presidency. If the candidate has no degree, but is very knowledgeable on the issues, that is all that matters really.

Do not make the "fallacy of the intellectual," i.e. assuming that because one is an expert in some narrow, specialized profession, that this somehow makes them more qualified than others to be President.

Barack Obama showed himself to be highly ignorant of the basics of economics, foreign policy, history, and the Constitution, despite being a Columbia and Harvard graduate, and a Constitutional law professor.

That, or he's a total ideologue. It's one or the other. I'd guess the latter moreso, with some of the former. But no one ever really put any tough questions to him.

I've heard Obama several times with and without a prompter. When unprepared he may stutter and verbally misstep but I get the over all impression that he knows what he is talking about.

Any good politician can seem to know what they're talking about. If you listen to his speeches however, and what he said throughout the campaign, it was very apparent, as I have said, that he was either an ideologue or he knew nothing. He is an expert at using a lot of words to ultimately say nothing.

He does not ramble on into never ending incoherant sentences. I heard Palin a number of times both prepared and unprepared. When she was prepared she seemed to be reciting lines as if she didn't really understand what she was talking about all that well and when she was unprepared she sounded like a babbling idiot who had no idea what was coming out of her mouth. It was frightfully reminicent of Ms South Carolina from the 2007 Teen USA Pagent.

True, she needs to work on those aspects. She needs to learn the issues more in-depth. She did okay during her VP debate, but she still needed to learn more. Some have been wondering why she hasn't yet, but some speculate it is because of the ethics charges and so forth she is handling right now and maybe that is why she resigned. Time will tell. But as I said, I never heard Barack Obama sound like he knew what he was talking about either. The list of questions Republicans wanted him to be asked, I don't think I could list them all here. Which he never would because if confronted with them, it would quickly come apparent either how ignorant of the issues he is or how much of an ideologue he is.

MCCAIN didn't know what he was talking about even, and Biden, they had to wire his jaw shut near the end of the election. None of them did really. That's the sad thing.

You still have not said why she is untouchable in regards to abortion.

She hasn't had an abortion herself.

And my point bringing up the daughter is that families forcing their daughters to keep children they may not necessarily want or be ready to take care of as well as pushing them into marriage with a person they may not have any interest in spending their lives with are major issues for prochoice activists.

Her daughter went and got knocked up. I doubt she would have kept, or even had, the baby if she really didn't want it.

cont'd...
 
  • #56
Palin is lucky that she can afford to take care of a child with down syndrome. And her daughter is lucky to have a family that are willing and able to support her and her child. The vast majority of people are not so lucky.

I never said abortion should be banned. But it is a touchy issue.

However, in modern America, I don't think her daughter would need any family. The government will provide her with Medicaid, an apartment, a welfare check, food stamps, and so forth. Or maybe that's just New York State where I am? I know it's the "cool" thing among many young girls, just pop out a kid, and the government gives you all the above, and you can have parties and so forth, pop out a second kid and you get a bigger apartment (an example of a social program incentivizing bad behavior).

Do you see the problem here that I have underlined? Palin was not even well received by moderates in her own party. How then does she possesses an appeal for moderates?

The same way in which Barack Obama wasn't liked per se by "moderate" Democrats, but attracted much of the overall "moderate" vote in the population.

As for the womens vote Hillary supporters were still smarting over her loss in the primaries and were already talking about voting for McCain to spite Obama. Some few people were worried that Palin gave them more of an excuse but that quickly evaporated when she proved to be a rather poor representative of women in politics.

I wouldn't say it was just Hillary voters. The truth is there are lot of women in this country with Palin's point-of-view. All women are not automatically pro-choice Democrats. And Palin was no poor representative of women in politics. She just needs some fine-tuning. Same as Caroline Kennedy would have if she'd gotten into the Senate.

Lets look at some analysis though...

Bad analysis. You're talking about CBS polls, which cannot be trusted. Furthermore, if that was the case, again, NO ONE ON THE LEFT WOULD CARE about Sarah Palin. They are only so viscious regarding her because she is such a threat to them.

My emphasis.

Stats...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_141231.html
I think I have seen people complain about the Huffington Post before but I am only using it as a quick source of voter stats. If you do not like them then please provide a better source.
These are all in Obama's favour.
57-41 among women.
85-15 among Hillary supporters.
61-38 among working women.
50-48 among non-working women.

I don't see where Palin captured the women's vote for McCain.

I didn't say (or didn't mean to say) she captured the women's vote for McCain, if that was the case, we'd have John McCain as President right now, I said Palin attracted a lot of the woman's vote, or made a lot of them think a lot more deeply about who to vote for. She provided a lot of appeal to women that scared (and still scares) the daylights out of the left.

For example, if it had been John McCain versus Presidential candidate Joe Biden let's pretend, and then McCain introduced Palin, Palin likely would have pulled enough of the women's vote away from Biden to win (assuming Biden had the lead). A lot of women liked Barack Obama a lot as well though.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/158893 - Here is one article, but Google "palin women vote" and read various articles about how the polls changed when Palin was introduced.

As someone anyone would actually like to see sitting in the White House, or hold any political office? I agree with you, D H. However I don't perceive Palin as someone who would see it that way. It strikes me (given all of the attention she received recently for simply visiting New York) that she'd rather the limelight than the obscurity of Alaska. She appears to revel in the attention. I'd hazard a guess and say she's been offered lucrative speaking engagements as one of the only viable celebrity-type Republicans left. I'd further guess that would appeal to her.

Celebrity appeals to plenty of politicians. It appeals in particular to our current President, who actually was criticized by some in the regular media for seeming to continue to "campaign" during his presidency early on while the recession was getting worse even.

Not saying there is anything wrong with a politician liking celebrity. However, if that is why she resigned, then no she shouldn't be President. If she resigned to legimately get up to speed on the issues or something, that is different.

Ahahaha! In real terms Reagan presided over what is far and away the largest increase in the national deficit since world war 2! Calling reagan a fiscal conservative is a complete and total distortion of history, fiscally conservative describes the exact opposite of Reagan. Ahahaha!

Under Reagan, government stopped growing as a percentage of the economy for the first time in decades. Reagan's deficit came from four things:

1) Paul Volcker's contractionary monetary policy at the Federal Reserve to fix inflation automatically drove up the deficit as inflation declined and the recession occurred.

2) Reagan signed off on some incredibly large tax cuts initially (he later scaled them back by about a third).

3) He wanted the Democrats in Congress to cut back their spending on social programs, but they would not.

4) Reagan significantly increased defense spending to re-build the military.

Around 1985-1986, the Reagan deficit began shrinking due to the economic growth.

Obama for his part has certainly garnered some riches along the way, but his concerns seem much more focused on bringing policy change - apparently a missing club from Sarah's golf bag.

Public service doesn't strike me really as what President Obama desired. He himself once said he would never think of running for President until he had gained more experience. I think the allure of power, his ideology, and his wanting to change the very foundations this country is built upon, are what drew him into it. He is a socialist at heart. He believes government is the answer to all of our problems.

One out of five people now consider themselves to be Republicans. The Republicans may still be an exclusive club, but the fact is that unless they expand their base, they are doomed to go the way of the Whigs. That is not the winning side but it what Palin represents. About 31% consider themselves to be Democrats, and 38% Independent.

The exact same thing was said all the way back in 1965. And in times after. The Republicans will make a comeback, just as the Democrats do when they get down and out.

Precisely! The Republican party is running out anyone but the extremists. The way they are going, they will soon have a very unified and a very small and insignificant party.

Not really, they are running out everyone who is a form of leftist in some form. No true classically liberal Republican is extremist.

Our current President is an example of an extremist, as are much of the current Democrat party, which has been hijacked by the hardcore Left.

If you want to know if someone is a fundamenalist you have to look at their religion. She is Pentacostal for crying out loud! Have you ever been to a Pentacostal service? You get the end-time prophesies and the whole bit. In fact there was a video of Palin describing how everyone would be running to Alaska as the world ends. She even boasts that she and her fellow devotees are blessed with knowledge of the future. Mainstream Christianity has a name for that - false prophets.

So what? And Barack Obama comes from a church that is okay with racism and anti-Americanism and is grounded in Marxism, with a pastor who believes that the U.S. government created the AIDS virus to kill black people. A person's personal religion is of no concern, unless they are going to force it on the citizens or the religion entails racism and anti-Americanism (you don't want an anti-American person becoming President).

The current Democrats in control are trying to force their religion of environmentalism and big government on us right now with this huge boondoggle called "cap-and-trade." Because if we don't, then we'll all die when the Earth exacts its revenge on us from ultra-powerful hurricanes, floods, tornados, blah blah blah.

What you need to realize is conventional religion is not the only religion. BOTH sides have religion, but for the left, their "god" is the government and/or the Earth. Their religions are environmentalism and large government.

This isn't always set in stone, occassionally there are combinations of say socialism and Christianity (Barack Obama's church for example), but historically, when conventional religion is suppressed, the religion of the State takes its place.

Frankly, the notion that someone like Colin Powell is considered a leftist only shows how far the Republican party has sunk.

Powell went and supported a man who was the exact opposite of almost everything he claims to have ever stood for.
 
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  • #57
WheelsRCool said:
I never said abortion should be banned. But it is a touchy issue.

However, in modern America, I don't think her daughter would need any family. The government will provide her with Medicaid, an apartment, a welfare check, food stamps, and so forth. Or maybe that's just New York State where I am? I know it's the "cool" thing among many young girls, just pop out a kid, and the government gives you all the above, and you can have parties and so forth, pop out a second kid and you get a bigger apartment (an example of a social program incentivizing bad behavior).

OK, without going further into you post...this sounds too much like Reagan's "Welfare Queens Driving Cadillacs" myth...a dramatization that is real only in conservatives' minds. Care to give a reference for this claim?
 
  • #58
No I can't; I know this solely from the experience of my own two cousins who did this, along with some of my sister's friends. That's why I said I'm not sure if it was national or just in New York State where I live.
 
  • #59
Can we keep it to Sarah Palin? These long screeds may make people feel better that write them, but frankly I don't read them.

Pithiness is in too short a supply.
 
  • #60
LowlyPion said:
I don't read them.
Frankly I read good chunks of it, and it was worth several good laughs.
 
  • #61
humanino said:
Frankly I read good chunks of it, and it was worth several good laughs.

I really try, but I keep hearing my horrible 3rd grade teacher in my head..."Don't roll your eyes, they'll get stuck the way!"
 
  • #62
SarahPalin_Facebook said:
Happy 4th of July from Alaska!

On this Independence Day, I am so very proud of all those who have chosen to serve our great nation and I honor their selflessness and the sacrifices of their families, too.

If I may, I would like to take a moment to reflect on the last 24 hours and share my thoughts with you.

First, I want to thank you for your support and hard work on the values we share. Those values led me to the decision my family and I made. Yesterday, my family and I announced a decision that is in Alaska's best interest and it always feels good to do what is right. We have accomplished more during this one term than most governors do in two - and I am proud of the great team that helped to build these wonderful successes. Energy independence and national security, fiscal restraint, smaller government, and local control have been my priorities and will remain my priorities.

For months now, I have consulted with friends and family, and with the Lieutenant Governor, about what is best for our wonderful state. I even made a few administrative changes over that course in time in preparation for yesterday. We have accomplished so much and there's much more to do, but my family and I determined after prayerful consideration that sacrificing my title helps Alaska most. And once I decided not to run for re-election, my decision was that much easier - I've never been one to waste time or resources. Those who know me know this is the right decision and obvious decision at that, including Senator John McCain. I thank him for his kind, insightful comments.

The response in the main stream media has been most predictable, ironic, and as always, detached from the lives of ordinary Americans who are sick of the "politics of personal destruction". How sad that Washington and the media will never understand; it's about country. And though it's honorable for countless others to leave their positions for a higher calling and without finishing a term, of course we know by now, for some reason a different standard applies for the decisions I make. But every American understands what it takes to make a decision because it's right for all, including your family.

I shared with you yesterday my heartfelt and candid reasons for this change; I've never thought I needed a title before one's name to forge progress in America. I am now looking ahead and how we can advance this country together with our values of less government intervention, greater energy independence, stronger national security, and much-needed fiscal restraint. I hope you will join me. Now is the time to rebuild and help our nation achieve greatness!

God bless you! And I look forward to making a difference - with you!

Sarah

Stand up comics rejoice. And I am so sure that John McCain gave her encouragement to run for national office. Chances are she must not have understood him correctly.
 
  • #63
Did anyone see Ed Rollins yesterday - the campaign manager that masterminded Reagan's 49 State sweep? He was one very unhappy camper. I haven't seen him this upset since election night.

Palin's Friday news conference "raised a lot more questions than she answered. Usually, at a press conference, you answer questions. I think the bottom line is you saw a shooting star come crashing to Earth.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/04/earlyshow/main5132826.shtml

From my point of view, she already had a huge credibility problem. She made a very poor showing in 08 and the ONLY reason for her intense popularity early on was that she was a gun-toten spinster [as in political spin] that no one knew anything about. Once people got to know a little about her, and due to her laughable performance, she became a liability to McCain. Now, by abandoning her post, she has destroyed any chance that she had to demonstrate that she was ready to run for Federal office.

She has only proven again that she cannot be taken seriously.
 
  • #64
I just read this article from a few days ago. It wasn't interesting then, but today it carries a little more context, since it gives some glimpse into Sarah before her announcement has colored things further. The part about moving from Alaska seems possibly a precursor to her resignation. But "promoting physical fitness" ... that's a head scratcher.
Palin E-mails Show Infighting With Staff
... "Alaska would be hard to give up because it is such a part of who I am. So much of my life revolves around the great outdoors that that would be kind of tough," Palin said. "But on the other hand, I think of being in D.C. and in a position to promote physical fitness and the benefits of making good decisions health-wise and being an example to others, and I know that could do some good for our country."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/01/politics/main5128672.shtml
 
  • #65
WheelsRCool said:
I never said abortion should be banned. But it is a touchy issue.

However, in modern America, I don't think her daughter would need any family. The government will provide her with Medicaid, an apartment, a welfare check, food stamps, and so forth. Or maybe that's just New York State where I am? I know it's the "cool" thing among many young girls, just pop out a kid, and the government gives you all the above, and you can have parties and so forth, pop out a second kid and you get a bigger apartment (an example of a social program incentivizing bad behavior).
I never said you did. Palin is pro-life. She is the one we are talking about. You say she is immune to attacks on the abortion issue simply because she has not had one? That's a rather poor argument in my opinion. I doubt that she has ever been poor either. That doesn't mean she is immune to attack on issues reagarding the poor (this is an example, not an insinuation that she has a bad record regarding poverty).

Wheels said:
The same way in which Barack Obama wasn't liked per se by "moderate" Democrats, but attracted much of the overall "moderate" vote in the population.
I would say a major reason Obama attracted so many moderates was because they were unimpressed by his opposition, which does not reflect well on Palin's influence with moderates.


Wheels said:
I wouldn't say it was just Hillary voters. The truth is there are lot of women in this country with Palin's point-of-view. All women are not automatically pro-choice Democrats. And Palin was no poor representative of women in politics. She just needs some fine-tuning. Same as Caroline Kennedy would have if she'd gotten into the Senate.
I do not deny that there are women who would vote for Palin. I think though that you are greatly exaggerating her influence. Obviously there are people who voted her into office as governor. There are also people who voted an Action Movie Star into office, a Pro Wrestler, and currently there is even a Porn Star garnering support to be elected for office.


Wheels said:
Bad analysis. You're talking about CBS polls, which cannot be trusted. Furthermore, if that was the case, again, NO ONE ON THE LEFT WOULD CARE about Sarah Palin. They are only so viscious regarding her because she is such a threat to them.
You could say that about any polling.
And the left needn't a real threat to be vicious detractors. Many of them will pounce on any opportunity to paint the right poorly in general. Palin is a prime target for making the right look bad the same way Ventura is a prime target for making independents look like nuts.
 
  • #66
The woman has mental issues, and the only question here is what self promotion angle is she planning? Does anyone doubt that this is the prelude to some scheme?
 
  • #67
LowlyPion said:
But "promoting physical fitness" ... that's a head scratcher.

Well I guess that's how the Governator got started. Does that mean she's taking a step backwards?
 
  • #68
TheStatutoryApe said:
Well I guess that's how the Governator got started. Does that mean she's taking a step backwards?

Granted the comment was made to Runner's World. But still and all, I doubt she could go 1 on 1 against the Big O, that inhabits the White House.

I think it really reveals that she is grasping for an agenda or an issue to promote.

Otherwise, we will have to await Barracuda - The Book to find out what vapid policy agenda she will be pinning her hopes by latching on to.
 
  • #69
Evo said:
The woman has mental issues, and the only question here is what self promotion angle is she planning? Does anyone doubt that this is the prelude to some scheme?

I'm sure there is a book promotion in the works. Likely the Neo-Con Skunkworks are slaving on cobbling some manifesto together for her to memorize to help her look like she has some gravitas.

I await the Book tour. That will be a gauntlet of interviews that will surely rain more entertaining nuggets from the Sarah Tree.
 
  • #70
y'know, we could just wait and see what happens
 
  • #71
I await the Book tour. That will be a gauntlet of interviews that will surely rain more entertaining nuggets from the Sarah Tree.

I can hardly wait for her book to come out :-p Probably will be an impassioned plea for Americans to understand that she can actually see Russia from her house, the global media conspiracy to discredit her and her family, and a 100 page diatribe against her would be son in law Levi Johnston and David Letterman.
 
  • #72
Maureen Dowd is a bit (understatement) brutal in her column, but interestingly close to the mark.

What looked like a secret wedding turned out to be a public unraveling as the G.O.P. implosion continued: Sarah wanted everyone to know that she’s not having fun and people are being mean to her and she doesn’t feel like finishing her first term as governor.

Entire ripping analysis here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05dowd.html
 
  • #73
Can we keep it to Sarah Palin? These long screeds may make people feel better that write them, but frankly I don't read them.

Pithiness is in too short a supply.

Translation: You have no ability to refute.

And I keep it to Sarah Palin. But when you're one guy defending Sarah Palin versus an entire forum criticizing your comments, you try to answer each one, and with some detail.

From my point of view, she already had a huge credibility problem. She made a very poor showing in 08 and the ONLY reason for her intense popularity early on was that she was a gun-toten spinster [as in political spin] that no one knew anything about. Once people got to know a little about her, and due to her laughable performance, she became a liability to McCain.

This is nonsense and completely baseless. Our current President is who had a huge credibility problem. So did Joseph Biden. Both still do. No one seemed to have any problem with them though.

Now, by abandoning her post, she has destroyed any chance that she had to demonstrate that she was ready to run for Federal office.

She has only proven again that she cannot be taken seriously.

Show me how either Barack Obama or Joseph Biden ever showed they could be taken seriously. In what way at all did either show they were qualified for the position of President and VP? The truth is they did not.

I never said you did. Palin is pro-life. She is the one we are talking about. You say she is immune to attacks on the abortion issue simply because she has not had one? That's a rather poor argument in my opinion. I doubt that she has ever been poor either. That doesn't mean she is immune to attack on issues reagarding the poor (this is an example, not an insinuation that she has a bad record regarding poverty).

Oh I am not saying one cannot criticize her for being pro-life if one is pro-choice. I just meant as a pro-life person, she adheres to her belief, so to attack her on it is a lot tougher.

It's like say if a politician supported the Iraq War when having fought in Vietnam. Does this make the politician immune from attacks per se, the "You support a war but never fought in one!" type of stuff? Yes. Does this mean one cannot criticize their position however? Not at all.

I do not deny that there are women who would vote for Palin. I think though that you are greatly exaggerating her influence. Obviously there are people who voted her into office as governor. There are also people who voted an Action Movie Star into office, a Pro Wrestler, and currently there is even a Porn Star garnering support to be elected for office.

If I am greatly exaggerating her influence, there would be no concern over her (or rejoice right now) from the political left. And Barack Obama would have won a landslide popular vote-wise, which he didn't (he won a landslide in terms of electoral votes however).

You could say that about any polling.

Well I think polls such as Rasmussen, Gallup, and a few others are reputable and non-partisan.

And the left needn't a real threat to be vicious detractors. Many of them will pounce on any opportunity to paint the right poorly in general. Palin is a prime target for making the right look bad the same way Ventura is a prime target for making independents look like nuts.

Political opponents don't go after those who make the opposition party look bad, because the people doing that are their own undoing.

For example, there is no need for Republicans to go after Vice President Biden who makes the Democrats look stupid because he does this himself. There would be little need to do after Denis Kucinich who makes the Democrats look nuts because he does this himself.

There IS need to go after those that have much appeal and make the opposition party look good. Such people constitute a threat and must be brought down. Sarah Palin, right now, is one of those, no matter how much hatemongering or namecalling the left spew for the time being.

The woman has mental issues, and the only question here is what self promotion angle is she planning? Does anyone doubt that this is the prelude to some scheme?

Specify...in what way does she have "mental issues?"

Well I guess that's how the Governator got started. Does that mean she's taking a step backwards?

She is a woman who has had five children who still has a nice build and body because she does a lot of running.

She was doing an interview with a running magazine. What do they expect, she's going to start talking about how to improve healthcare, education, government, foreign policy, etc...she just said she could see herself in D.C. promoting physical fitness and the benefits of running. I doubt she's going to go off on a tangent and say, "I can see myself in D.C. promoting change in our government, etc..."

And yes, actually that CAN do some good if a politician can inspire people to be more fit. If we could get rid of obesity in this country, we would automatically shave trillions off the healthcare system from obesity-related diseases. Palin shows one can have five children and work a full-time job and so forth and still keep a good build. That can resonate with a lot of people, in particular women.

Granted the comment was made to Runner's World. But still and all, I doubt she could go 1 on 1 against the Big O, that inhabits the White House.

Pretty much anyone with a decent understanding of the issues could very easily go 1 on 1 with the Big O. If the big O is so "Big," then why didn't he take on people like Sean Hannity in an all-out debate?

The truth is he is an ideologue and is profoundly ignorant on many of the issues, and there is nothing anybody can say to refute that.

I think it really reveals that she is grasping for an agenda or an issue to promote.

Otherwise, we will have to await Barracuda - The Book to find out what vapid policy agenda she will be pinning her hopes by latching on to.

Specify...in what way were Barack Obama's policies not vapid?

Because technically all he did was take a big pile of crap (there is a much more appropriate four-letter word for his policies, but I can't use it here), shape it to look like Swiss chocolate, and presented it to the public.

Many thought it was Swiss chocolate. Others couldn't tell. Some knew something didn't smell right. All will know what it really is if/when it starts really getting rammed down their throats in the near future. He ran on the same tired old nonsense the left have been promoting for years. No change whatsoever.

I await the Book tour. That will be a gauntlet of interviews that will surely rain more entertaining nuggets from the Sarah Tree.

Her last interview she did fairly well and backed the guy into a corner on a few things. I would underestimate her at all.

y'know, we could just wait and see what happens

Wisest post in the whole thread!
 
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  • #74
GeorginaS said:
Maureen Dowd is a bit (understatement) brutal in her column, but interestingly close to the mark.
Entire ripping analysis here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05dowd.html

"Mean" is a little bit of an understatement. No politician in recent memory has been so harassed and put through such scrutiny.

Furthermore, I do not remember anyone complaining back when Barack Obama was whining about Sean Hannity and Fox News tanking his poll numbers.
 
  • #75
WheelsRCool said:
Her daughter went and got knocked up. I doubt she would have kept, or even had, the baby if she really didn't want it.

How can you make claims like this? Do you really think that the daughter of a politician who is so anti-abortion is going to be allowed to have an abortion in the middle of a presidential campaign?

WheelsRCool said:
However, in modern America, I don't think her daughter would need any family. The government will provide her with Medicaid, an apartment, a welfare check, food stamps, and so forth. Or maybe that's just New York State where I am? I know it's the "cool" thing among many young girls, just pop out a kid, and the government gives you all the above, and you can have parties and so forth, pop out a second kid and you get a bigger apartment (an example of a social program incentivizing bad behavior).

When raising a child it is not nearly enough to be just given apartments, cash, food, etc.. that isn't support! You could have all the money and material things in the world and still be a terrible, unsupported parent!
 
  • #76
WheelsRCool said:
And yes, actually that CAN do some good if a politician can inspire people to be more fit. If we could get rid of obesity in this country, we would automatically shave trillions off the healthcare system from obesity-related diseases. Palin shows one can have five children and work a full-time job and so forth and still keep a good build.

But Palin is also wealthy: obesity is prevalent in people who take home close to the average wage, not a family whose breadwinners are a governor and an engineer with a combined salary of around $250,000!
 
  • #77
Show me how either Barack Obama or Joseph Biden ever showed they could be taken seriously. In what way at all did either show they were qualified for the position of President and VP? The truth is they did not.

They did not, Obama was humble enough to say that his foreign policy credentials were not great but that he was willing to learn. Compare that to Sarah Palin who said that she dabbled in foreign policy affairs just because Vladimir Putin flew over the state she governed. :-p

This is nonsense and completely baseless. Our current President is who had a huge credibility problem. So did Joseph Biden. Both still do. No one seemed to have any problem with them though.

What credibility problem does the current Obama administration have? You seem to be making a lot of rhetorical statements without elaborating. And if you are going to start talking about Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Obama's middle name or citizenship and socialism, please note that there have been countless discussions on that. It is Sarah Palin who has credibility problems when she cannot even understand what the job of vice president entails.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H1hKaHDSvg&feature=fvst

Furthermore, I do not remember anyone complaining back when Barack Obama was whining about Sean Hannity and Fox News tanking his poll numbers.

Why should anyone complain? If Sarah Palin feels that the media have it against her, no one will complain her right to fight against it. But then again, when she obsessively blames the media for all her problems and gets into hissy fits and possible lawsuits, people wonder whether she is just thin skinned or unstable.

Pretty much anyone with a decent understanding of the issues could very easily go 1 on 1 with the Big O. If the big O is so "Big," then why didn't he take on people like Sean Hannity in an all-out debate?

Obama already debated with Bill O'Reilly on a number of issues. Sean Hannity? All Hannity does is criticize Obama and if the President had gone on the show, instead of focusing on the real issues at hand like the economy and foreign policy, he would probably focus the whole interview on whether the President is really an American, whether he hates white people and other absurd, ridiculous questions

I haven't seen anything racist or prejudiced from her church. If they believe in the End of Days, whatever, that's their belief. No different than the similar End of Days the global warming fearmongers currently in charge believe in. The Reverand Wright issue was because he said racist and anti-American things, had a history that suggested racism, and the hypocrisy the left showed on this; the mainstream media, they were going to cover that whole thing up! Do you really think they would have done so with a Republican? NO WAY.

Your arguments are incoherent and you keep jumping from one issue to another. The mainstream media have been portraying Sarah Palin in all her glory which includes interviews and speeches where she mumbles incoherently, illogically and shows a gross ignorance of the world at large. She leaves the media no choice.
 
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  • #78
How can you make claims like this? Do you really think that the daughter of a politician who is so anti-abortion is going to be allowed to have an abortion in the middle of a presidential campaign?

Ahh, I'm forgetting Bristol is under eighteen (or was at the time), my mistake. Sarah Palin probably would not have consented to the abortion then.

When raising a child it is not nearly enough to be just given apartments, cash, food, etc.. that isn't support! You could have all the money and material things in the world and still be a terrible, unsupported parent!

Perhaps not, BUT IT SURE HELPS to have your apartment paid for, cash, food stamps (actually a card now I think), Medicaid, and so forth. It makes things easier.

But Palin is also wealthy: obesity is prevalent in people who take home close to the average wage, not a family whose breadwinners are a governor and an engineer with a combined salary of around $250,000!

Todd Palin isn't an engineer, he's a pipeline worker unless he advanced as of late. And this means nothing. In fact, one would think obesity would be more prevalent in those who earn at least $250K because those are your worker-bees who lack the time to workout, and also white-collar jobs tend to be more sitting on one's butt.

Most people prefer a 9 to 5 and that's it. Your highly-paid lawyers, doctors, and so forth, don't get to their level of high pay without working hard and long hours, oftentimes over 60+ hours a week. One would think such people would have less time to workout.

And BTW, $250K isn't rich, nowhere near in fact.

Obesity is prevalent because

1) Americans eat too much bad food (but don't worry, with universal healthcare, maybe government will levy a huge tax on it)

2) People in general are lazy and don't exercise at all

They did not, Obama was humble enough to say that his foreign policy credentials were not great but that he was willing to learn. Compare that to Sarah Palin who said that she dabbled in foreign policy affairs just because Vladimir Putin flew over the state she governed.

He had no foreign policy credentials whatsoever, none of them did. He originally talked about bombing Pakistan, referred to Iran as a "tiny country," and said he would sit down with foreign dictators without preconditions. He was learning on-the-fly.

And that has nothing to do with her willingness to learn on the issues. In other words, neither of them was very knowledgeable on foreign policy issues at the time, but both are willing to learn.

What credibility problem does the current Obama administration have? You seem to be making a lot of rhetorical statements without elaborating. And if you are going to start talking about Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Obama's middle name or citizenship and socialism, please note that there have been countless discussions on that.

His credibility problem is that he yes, he is either a racist or okay with racists and there is nothing anybody can say to refute that, and two, he never showed any in-depth knowledge or reasoning for any of the crazy policies he has been espousing.

He wants to ram his holy trinity of healthcare, education, and energy big government plans down our throats with no real debate on the subject whatsoever.

It is Sarah Palin who has credibility problems when she cannot even understand what the job of vice president entails.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H1hKaHDSvg&feature=

Please. Of course it was fine for Biden to say FDR was President during the 1929 crash and there were televisions then (this a flub we all know they'd have had to pull Palin from the ticket if she'd made it).

Or that Biden is a proven liar. Or that he's been wrong on a great many foreign policy issues for years.

But he was perfectly qualified for VP :rolleyes:

Why should anyone complain? If Sarah Palin feels that the media have it against her, no one will complain her right to fight against it. But then again, when she obsessively blames the media for all her problems and gets into hissy fits and possible lawsuits, people wonder whether she is just thin skinned or unstable.

Perhaps "criticism" is the word I should have used, not complain. And I know of no "hissy fits" she gets into or lawsuits, aside from numerous baseless ethics charges brought against her.

And I think you need to take a look at Barack Obama who obsessively blames the media (actually Fox News) for things (George Stephanopoulos commented on this recently about his apparent obsession with the network).

Obama already debated with Bill O'Reilly on a number of issues.

Only a short little debate done only because he had to because he'd promised O'Reilly, and O'Reilly was playing the clip and then saying he was dishonest. O'Reilly has too large a viewership (a lot of moderates watch him in fact). There was little in-depth debate because they did not have time to go into the issues that much.

Sean Hannity? All Hannity does is criticize Obama and if the President had gone on the show, instead of focusing on the real issues at hand like the economy and foreign policy, he would probably focus the whole interview on whether the President is really an American, whether he hates white people and other absurd, ridiculous questions

Complete and total nonsense. First of all, the Reverand Wright issue was not any "absurd, ridiculous question." It was a completely legitimate issue. You're going to run for President, people question who you allied yourself with, especially someone like that. He would have asked him:

1) Why is he so familiar with the principles of radical Saul Alinsky? (there is a picture of Obama teaching the principles of Alinsky and three of his mentors studied at a school founded by Alinsky)

2) Why he attended a dinner in 2003 for Rashid Khalidi, a man holding anti-Israeli views.

3) What was his relationship to Frank Marshall Davis?

4) Why did he sit in a church for twenty years with a radical race-baiting pastor who seems to have anti-American views whom he became very close to (had him marry him to his wife and baptize his children, along with as a campaign advisor I believe, and referred to him as a father figure)

5) Why he wants to nationalize healthcare (have an in-depth discussion)

6) Why he wants to enact carbon cap-and-trade (have an in-depth discussion on how this would create jobs and not destroy them)

7) Why he has such an extremist view on abortion

8) Why he wants to put activist justices on the Supreme Court

9) Why he would sit down with foreign leaders without pre-conditions

10) Why he wants to "spread the wealth" and how that is not socialist

11) What does he mean when he speaks of "economic justice," restoring "fairness" to the tax code, what he means by "fair trade," and all that other arbitrary statist crap.

12) How his policies are not the same old leftwing socialist statist nonsense they've been pushing for years.

Have you gone to her church? How can you be so confident in your judgement?

I am plenty confident on my judgement of the Reverand Wright issue. I am plenty confident when I can clearly see the left's religion of environmentalism and their wanting to use it to force big government down our throats.
 
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  • #79
He had no foreign policy credentials whatsoever, none of them did. He originally talked about bombing Pakistan, referred to Iran as a "tiny country," and said he would sit down with foreign dictators without preconditions. He was learning on-the-fly.

What is wrong with learning as you go? A hallmark of a great, successful person is the willingness to listen and learn from past experiences whether good or bad.

As for all those questions, most of them have been answered by Obama. As far as I am concerned, they seem logical and follow reason. In fact, a few of them were answered on the O'Reilly factor.

I am plenty confident on my judgement of the Reverand Wright issue. I am plenty confident when I can clearly see the left's religion of environmentalism and their wanting to use it to force big government down our throats.

I asked you whether you were confident that Palin's pastor was not making any hateful remarks aimed at fellow Americans. Again you keep moving from topic to topic and your statements are illogical. Environmentalism is there to protect our planet and future generations from possible suffering.

Only a short little debate done only because he had to because he'd promised O'Reilly, and O'Reilly was playing the clip and then saying he was dishonest. O'Reilly has too large a viewership (a lot of moderates watch him in fact). There was little in-depth debate because they did not have time to go into the issues that much.

The debate lasted for very nearly an hour. So just because the O'Reilly factor is watched by moderates, it automatically does not count? So Bill O'Reilly has to have a certain amount of airtime devoted to bashing Obama heavily and illogically before the show can regain credibility in the eyes of the conservatives.

This is exactly the kind of polarizing effect that can seriously damage America, conservatives have to attack Obama because he is not a conservative or because he does not believe in their values. To be honest, the Couric-Palin interview was much easier to negotiate than the O'Reilly interview, Palin failed because she could not string an eloquent, logical sentence together and not because the interviewer was harsh.

He wants to ram his holy trinity of healthcare, education, and energy big government plans down our throats with no real debate on the subject whatsoever.

There are numerous debates in congress and Obama has been going around hosting town hall meetings with ordinary citizens trying to promote his administration's plans in regards to the economy, health care etc. Compare that to Palin who struts around and calls every plan that the Obama administration proposes as socialism without even knowing its definition.
 
  • #80
math_04 said:
What is wrong with learning as you go? A hallmark of a great, successful person is the willingness to listen and learn from past experiences whether good or bad.

If that is the case, then why was there any criticism over Palin's "lack" of foreign policy knowledge/experience? She was willing to learn and I think still is. She matched Joseph Biden in the VP debate.

Obama was running for President however. He should not have chosen to run without first being learned in the subjects. And McCain should not have chosen to run without knowing the economy (although Barack Obama didn't know that really either).

As for all those questions, most of them have been answered by Obama. As far as I am concerned, they seem logical and follow reason. In fact, a few of them were answered on the O'Reilly factor.

Not all of them, only some of them, and sort of. And none in-depth.

I asked you whether you were confident that Palin's pastor was not making any hateful remarks aimed at fellow Americans. Again you keep moving from topic to topic and your statements are illogical. Environmentalism is there to protect our planet and future generations from possible suffering.

I was just coming back to answer about Palin's church, had forgotten about that; I cannot be 100% confident her church never said such things, however, one would think if her church or pastor had said such things, she would have made it aware to the McCain campaign before joining, because it for sure would have come out in time.

I also would think the McCain campaign would have vetted her as best they could, and that would include the church.

Since nothing such has come out, and with so many out to get her, I think it is safe to assume her church is okay until otherwise disproven.

As for environmentalism, decent environmentalism is fine. But the religion of environmentalism, which is anti-capitalism, anti-individualism, anti-American (as we are the biggest "polluter"), is not. Global warming is a highly controversial theory right now with no one having any full arguments either way. Rushing to ram a carbon tax bill on the public as the President is trying is crazy right now.

Even if real, who says a carbon tax is the solution? No one knows for sure if the planet is warming, if so, if by humans, or just naturally, or by the Sun, and if being warmed, naturally or by humans, if warming will be bad, etc...and if it will be bad, how to stop it.

How will such a bill help with moving us off of foreign oil? Windmills, solar, etc...even if viable, won't do it. Oil is needed for fuel to run autos. Is President Obama aware that some say moving off of foreign oil is not possible or desirable? And such.

Extreme environmentalism has wrecked businesses, has led to millions of deaths in Africa from the not allowing nations there to use DDT to kill pests, and makes claims that are often groundless and can lead to catostrophe (such as the claim that species are dying at enormous rates or that trees are precious; for example, the environmental groups in California that hate the timber industry, even though we have more trees per capita today than we did 150 years ago, nevertheless, they will not cut much of the underbrush and dead trees in California forests, so those forests catch fire easily and create huge fires).

Notice no privately-owned and maintained forests by the big paper companies catch fire and burn down people's homes, because they clear out the underbrush, cut down the dead trees, and so forth, so it is far tougher for a fire to start.

Or the view that trees are somehow "sacred," when they're really just a big plant that can be regarded as a weed in a sense, as they suck up lots of water and block out the sunlight, making it tougher for other plants to survive.

Or the environmentalist view, I'm sure you've heard it, that nature uninhabited by humans is "un-spoiled, pristine, etc..." those are religious views.

I believe I read somewhere that the reason there is such gridlock in the Los Angelos highway system is because it's meant to handle 1960s traffic, not 21st century traffic levels. The solution would be to build some more highways for more cars, but the environmentalists put a stop to that.

The debate lasted for very nearly an hour. So just because the O'Reilly factor is watched by moderates, it automatically does not count? So Bill O'Reilly has to have a certain amount of airtime devoted to bashing Obama heavily and illogically before the show can regain credibility in the eyes of the conservatives.

NOOO. You mist-understood me. I meant that since the show is watched by moderates, Barack Obama had to do it.

This is exactly the kind of polarizing effect that can seriously damage America, conservatives have to attack Obama because he is not a conservative or because he does not believe in their values.

They criticize him because his "values" are a good deal fundamentally anti-American.

To be honest, the Couric-Palin interview was much easier to negotiate than the O'Reilly interview, Palin failed because she could not string an eloquent, logical sentence together and not because the interviewer was harsh.

Couric-Palin interview wasn't good, I agree.

[quote[There are numerous debates in congress and Obama has been going around hosting town hall meetings with ordinary citizens trying to promote his administration's plans in regards to the economy, health care etc. Compare that to Palin who struts around and calls every plan that the Obama administration proposes as socialism without even knowing its definition.[/QUOTE]

When you think big-government will fix everything, that is ultimately grounded in socialism. However, Palin does need to learn to articulate her views better. If she is smart, that is one reason why she resigned, if the job was keeping her from that. She cannot keep speaking in platitudes, that's okay at the start, but not as you advance.

Regarding President "O," his healthcare "town hall" recently did not permit opposing viewpoints. For example, he says you will be allowed to keep your existing health plan. But what if the public plan drives the private health insurance industry out of business? Many proponents of single-payer want to get to it via universal healthcare because of this very fact. Why should we think it will lower costs? How will rationing not occur? Is he aware the private health insurance sector is not a "free-market" so-to-speak. And so forth.

On carbon tax, I'd like to ask:

1) Why is carbon even considered a pollutant, when it isn't?
2) Why does he say "the debate is over" when it is not?
3) How will it create jobs and not harm the economy?
4) How is it not an incredible tax on everyone, and a very regressive one at that?
5) What kind of control is this going to give to government? It looks like a massive power grab.
6) Why does it apply California's housing standards nationwide when that state has wrecked its economy with its policies?

and so forth.
 
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  • #81
Evo said:
The woman has mental issues, and the only question here is what self promotion angle is she planning? Does anyone doubt that this is the prelude to some scheme?

That's what I thought at first. Another possibility is that some scandal is about to break, or would have broken had she stayed in office.
 
  • #82
WheelsRCool said:
Todd Palin isn't an engineer, he's a pipeline worker unless he advanced as of late. And this means nothing.

Really?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/30/wealth-makes-palins-no-ordinary-alaskans/?page=3

washington post said:
After Mrs. Palin's election as governor in 2006, Mr. Palin took a cut in his $120,000 annual pay as an engineer at BP in Prudhoe Bay to be to be an oil production operator at $46,790 a year.

...

Last year, Mrs. Palin received $125,000 as governor and Mr. Palin, an oil production operator and commercial fisherman, earned $93,000, along with $22,500 as a professional snow-machine racer.

It seems like he was an engineer, but took a demotion when Palin became governor. Still, the job title is purely semantics; the important point is the amount of money they earn (and this is before all the publicity!)

In fact, one would think obesity would be more prevalent in those who earn at least $250K because those are your worker-bees who lack the time to workout, and also white-collar jobs tend to be more sitting on one's butt.

Again, really?

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.ehb.2005.05.003

This paper investigates obesity’s relationship to individuals’ wealth by analyzing data from a large U.S. longitudinal socio-economic survey. The results show a large negative association between BMI and White female’s net worth, a smaller negative association for Black women and White males and no relationship for Black males.


And BTW, $250K isn't rich, nowhere near in fact.

Finally.. really?

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Median household income, 2007 $50,740

$250,000 is a lot greater than $50,740. Thus, compared to the rest of the population, the Palins are wealthy.

It's normally better to use evidence to back up your position, rather than making throw away comments that are laughably fallacious!
 
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  • #83
Another possibility is that some scandal is about to break, or would have broken had she stayed in office.

Yes, that is what I also thought at first. But then again, it might have just been the stress of the job and the inability to wade through tough political battles. I have noticed that she, on many occasions, runs away from a tough battle, plays the blame game numerous times, despite having a possibly faked external aura of self confidence and brashness. It is almost as if she was thrust too fast into the political scene, felt deeply intimidated by the national political stage and combined with her possible lack of confidence and knowledge, gave up and fell into a big hole. Thankfully,this all means that a run for president in 2012 probably will not happen.
 
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  • #84
WheelsRCool said:
Translation: You have no ability to refute.

Don't be silly. Maybe save that kind of talk for a basketball court or a school yard? The real translation is as expressed, ... I have little interest in parsing your screeds.
 
  • #85
Redbelly98 said:
That's what I thought at first. Another possibility is that some scandal is about to break, or would have broken had she stayed in office.

I'd be surprised if there was much scandal about to break, unless it was scandal not discovered that would have occurred before her selection by McCain. It would be so unbelievably Blagoivich, if she would have engaged in anything untoward, in the full glare of the attention that has surrounded her since the election.
 
  • #86
Really?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...askans/?page=3

I think the term "engineer" is a little misleading though, as Todd Palin does not have a college degree. He has worked for about eighteen years on oil slopes. I know he was going to move into a position of management in the company but because of his wife's new job as Governor (at the time), he avoided taking the job to avoid a conflict of interest.

But I do not think he is an engineer in terms of the way this website would regard it. He was/is more a form of a supervisor at most.

It seems like he was an engineer, but took a demotion when Palin became governor. Still, the job title is purely semantics; the important point is the amount of money they earn (and this is before all the publicity!)

True.

Again, really?

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.ehb.2005.05.003

Yes really, that's what one would think. I didn't say that's what it is. Obesity tends to be more prevalant in the poorer from what I have seen personally, because they are lazier and do not take care of themselves. One could always mention the "working poor" who are not lazy, but these people generally rise out of poverty within time, unless they make very poor decisions.

Otherwise, from a strict time point-of-view, it's the person working the 60+ hour job sitting on their butt who should be fatter, not the person working the 9 to 5.

Obesity otherwise is mostly a result of laziness and bad appetite on the part of Americans.

Finally.. really?

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

$250,000 is a lot greater than $50,740. Thus, compared to the rest of the population, the Palins are wealthy.

No they are not. They are simply, when salaries are combined, among the highest-paid. That doesn't make them wealthy by any means. In some areas of the country, $250K is standard middle-class living. Try living in Manhattan and see how far $250K takes you.

Think of it this way. Who are the richest 5% of people on Earth? All 300 million Americans.

Whether you make $20K or $200K or $2 million a year or whatever as an American, you are among the richest 5% of the global population.

But we can see that there are some huge disparities still within that 5%! As you said, a person making $250K is still making a lot more than someone making say $50K.

But $250K just puts one into around the highest-earning 5% of the American population I believe, and within that 5%, there are also huge disparities.

"Wealthy" is an arbitrary term, but on average, it means net worth around at least $5 million to $10 million and income of maybe around at least $500K a year. That kind of money just barely breaks the mark of where someone can be considered "rich" or "wealthy."

"The wealthy" are those earning in the millions each year with millions of dollars in net worth. Earning $250K a year is small potatoes and nowhere near wealthy. You aren't in the poorhouse on a combined income of $250K but you are nowhere near wealthy on that either.

$250K is just the upper-echelon of the middle-class.

Yes, that is what I also thought at first. But then again, it might have just been the stress of the job and the inability to wade through tough political battles. I have noticed that she, on many occasions, runs away from a tough battle, plays the blame game numerous times, despite having a possibly faked external aura of self confidence and brashness.

What "tough battles" has she "run away" from (aside from her resignation as governor)? When does she "play the blame game?"
 
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  • #87
There seems to be about 20% to 30% of Americans who are very conservative and who don't like to be part of a more moderate Republican Party. Palin could be a suitable person to lead such a Conservative Party.
 
  • #88
WheelsRCool said:
No they are not. They are simply, when salaries are combined, among the highest-paid. That doesn't make them wealthy by any means.

You must just have some weird politician definition of wealth!

In some areas of the country, $250K is standard middle-class living. Try living in Manhattan and see how far $250K takes you.

I live in London, the second most expensive city to live in in the world (note that New York is 15th). I earn nothing like $250k, however still manage to live quite easily. You are, once again, making up comments that have no relation to the truth!

Think of it this way. Who are the richest 5% of people on Earth? All 300 million Americans.

Are you living in some sort of naive bizarro-world? There countries other than the United States in the world, you know... all the other billions of people in the world are not living in poverty!

Whether you make $20K or $200K or $2 million a year or whatever as an American, you are among the richest 5% of the global population.

Sorry, but this is even more laughable than all the other nonsense you've been stating. Do you have your own America-only internet, and lack of international news, or do you just choose to be so ignorant?


"Wealthy" is an arbitrary term, but on average, it means net worth around at least $5 million to $10 million and income of maybe around at least $500K a year. That kind of money just barely breaks the mark of where someone can be considered "rich" or "wealthy."

Whatever; I'm bored of you and your semantics now.

It seems to me that you are sat with a huge silver spoon in your mouth which has been there since birth, in your castle in a place where a wage of $250k is not classed as wealthy. I hope you wave to the people in the slums when you fly in your helicopter over them.
 
  • #89
You must just have some weird politician definition of wealth!

Wealthy is when you can pretty much afford to live the "high-life" comfortably. $250K won't do it, not by a long shot.

I live in London, the second most expensive city to live in in the world (note that New York is 15th). I earn nothing like $250k, however still manage to live quite easily. You are, once again, making up comments that have no relation to the truth!

What part (although not that I am familiar with London's areas, aside from Kensington)? Because $250K in a place like Manhattan isn't going to get you very far. In Brooklyn perhaps, or Queens, but not Manhattan.

Are you living in some sort of naive bizarro-world? There countries other than the United States in the world, you know... all the other billions of people in the world are not living in poverty!

The United States is the richest 5% of the global population. Haven't you ever heard the complaints from the Left that the U.S. are 5% of the world population yet use 25% of the resources (they forget how much wealth America produces).

Now yes, on a PER CAPITA basis, America isn't the wealthiest...Switzerland, the Cayman Islands, Monaco, and so forth, are richer. But as an overall segment of the global population and country, America is the richest.

Europe and the Westernized Asian countries still make up relatively small portions of the global population.

Most of the world population lives in poverty, or what we in our richer countries would define as poverty. Even the so-called "rich" European nations have economies that by the American standard, suck, along with taxes and gas prices Americans would scream bloody murder about.

Sorry, but this is even more laughable than all the other nonsense you've been stating. Do you have your own America-only internet, and lack of international news, or do you just choose to be so ignorant?

What is "America-centric" about saying America is the richest 5%? We are 300 million people out of a six billion global population (that's 5%), with a $12 to $13 TRILLION economy. Our largest corporations are bigger money-wise than most Third World economies.

WE ARE THE WEALTHIEST 5% ON THE PLANET. We put more money into our military than most other countries COMBINED and it still is "only" about 3% to 5% of our GDP.

Our currency is the gold standard of the world (right now anyway, it seems this might change eventually due to our current tanking economy and if our new President and Congress spends us into oblivion).

There is nothing "American-centric" about this.

Whatever; I'm bored of you and your semantics now.

It seems to me that you are sat with a huge silver spoon in your mouth which has been there since birth, in your castle in a place where a wage of $250k is not classed as wealthy. I hope you wave to the people in the slums when you fly in your helicopter over them.

$250K is not wealthy. It's just upper-earning middle-class.

As for semantics, you're the one who claims that "wealth" automatically equals fitness, which is silly. If that was the case, all celebrities would instantly be fit and none would have weight problems as many do.

AMERICA AS A NATION would be a nation of ultra-fit people! Instead we're a nation of fatties (and then we complain about high healthcare costs).

Palin's making $250K combined isn't what makes her and her husband fit, it's that she gets up and runs each day and he works on pipelines, races snow machines, and so forth, you know, EXERCISE. She in particular, you don't have five children and maintain a good build at 45 years of age as a woman unless you exercise all the time (and eat healthy I'm sure as well).

There are plenty of hardworking people who work long hours in an office who are highly-paid, but are overweight and out-of-shape who would say, "You want me to EXERCISE!? YOU TRY WORKING 60+ HOURS EACH WEEK AND HAVING TO DEAL WITH FAMILY AND BILLS AND THEN FIND TIME TO EXERCISE!"

Poor, rich, whatever, the only way to be fit is to eat healthy and exercise properly.

And no I was not born with any silver spoon in my mouth, I know what poverty is, up until recently I was in a trailer with lack of heat in the winter time, windows so lousy I had to put plastic on them with duct tape, holes in the floor, constant fear of waterpipes freezing in the winter, a toilet not even screwed onto the floor, half the electrical wiring in the place fried, I could go on.
 
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  • #90
BobG said:
I doubt she's on the losing side of a split within the Republican Party.
...

The fact that all three tried to tap into the religious fundamentalist core just emphasizes which side is on the winning side in the Republican Party split.

There's another off year Congressional election to get through, and you might see what really matters in elections - the economy. If we're still in a recession, Democrats will get hammered and religious conservatives will take it as evidence that they can succeed without any moderates.

Come 2012, we'll see which side was on the winning side of the Republican split. If Romney runs as the pre-2008 Romney and Huckabee emphasizes his record in Arkansas instead of running as an ex-preacher, then the economic conservatives (Romney) or moderates (Huckabee) will have won. If all three candidates run as religious conservatives again, then I think you can conclude the Republican Party is on its way to third party status - in that case, Palin will be as good as any other candidate likely to win the Republican nomination.

Ivan Seeking said:
You keep ignoring the results of the election.

My comment was directed towards which side wins the battle within the Republican Party, not that a party of social conservatives would win the national battle for the electorate in the long term.

An extreme right Republican Party is a mixed bag. Constantly being hammered in Congress would drive the party out of existence.

If the Republican Party can maintain a significant representation in Congress (at least 41 Senators, for example - they can't run 40 or less for many cycles), they'll win a Presidential election, eventually. If we're still stuck in an economic recession in 2012, Nixon could beat Obama (and Nixon's dead). Being a minority party limits the effectiveness of a President, but not overwhelmingly so unless the opposite party has such a large majority that it can override vetos at will. It at least affords a decent chance of getting a conservative Supreme Court justice, for example.

I don't think it's really a winning proposition for a political party since Republicans are clearly flirting with the possibility of irrelevance, but it's still an interesting idea. If you're a social conservative, it provides a better chance of victory than diluting your position before the nomination even takes place. Economic conservatives and moderates might be pretty irate at how the Bush Presidency turned out, but two or three decades of Alito and Roberts have to be pretty encouraging to some conservatives if they have visions of Roe v Wade being overturned, affirmative action ending, etc.

The same could be said of the extreme in either political party. As frustrating as the 1992 election and 2000 election may have been (to Republicans in the first and Democrats in the second), being willing to throw an election to the opposing party is a very powerful tactic to make sure the extreme factions aren't ignored in future nomination battles. Different tactic, but same principal.

In fact, I think driving moderates (RINOs) out of the Republican Party has worked out a lot better for social conservatives than third party defections historically have. Sometimes, the best you can achieve is short term success, so go for the gusto and get as much out of it as you can, when you can.
 
  • #91
WheelsRCool said:
The United States is the richest 5% of the global population.

Perhaps we should start defining our words, since you seem to have a nonstandard dictionary. I use the term "richer" in the sense that person A is richer than person B if (and only if) the sum of person A's property and cash is greater than that of person B. Thus, by my (somewhat standard) definition of the word, a person whose net property is $(n+1) is richer than a person whose net property is $n.

However, using bizarro definitions that you seem intent on using, a person who lives in Germany, say, with property worth €100,000,000 is not as rich as a person who lives in the US with property worth $10. That, my friend, is utterly nonsensical.

Even the so-called "rich" European nations have economies that by the American standard, suck, along with taxes and gas prices Americans would scream bloody murder about.
LOL! That's your opinion, I suppose (though it seems quite clear you've never actually traveled outside your country). However, what if I wanted to judge whether a country "sucked" or not on, say, the availability of free healthcare... :rolleyes:

What is "America-centric" about saying America is the richest 5%?

Saying that the US has the richest economy in the world is completely different to saying that individually Americans are the wealthiest people in the world.

WE ARE THE WEALTHIEST 5% ON THE PLANET.

Maybe you should start using some references instead of just trying to shout to win an argument.

As for semantics, you're the one who claims that "wealth" automatically equals fitness, which is silly.

Did I say that, or did I instead counter your comment that "In fact, one would think obesity would be more prevalent in those who earn at least $250K because those are your worker-bees who lack the time to workout, and also white-collar jobs tend to be more sitting on one's butt."

Did I counter you comment by simply speculating like you do? Oh no, wait a minute, I used a published, peer-reviewed article to support my argument. Have you got any support for your arguments?

...I could go on.

Sure, go for it, it would be about as strong as the rest of your anecdotal points.


Oh, and by the way, stop putting words in my mouth. Comments like "As for semantics, you're the one who claims that "wealth" automatically equals fitness, which is silly" are completely misrepresenting what I have actually said. I could make up lies about you if I really wanted, but I doubt I could do as well as you're doing to yourself!
 
  • #92
cristo said:
Perhaps we should start defining our words, since you seem to have a nonstandard dictionary. I use the term "richer" in the sense that person A is richer than person B if (and only if) the sum of person A's property and cash is greater than that of person B. Thus, by my (somewhat standard) definition of the word, a person whose net property is $(n+1) is richer than a person whose net property is $n.

However, using bizarro definitions that you seem intent on using, a person who lives in Germany, say, with property worth €100,000,000 is not as rich as a person who lives in the US with property worth $10. That, my friend, is utterly nonsensical.

Where on Earth do you get the impression I am saying this? I'm talking about as a POPULATION, the U.S. is the richest 5%. Of course each country has people who are what we define as rich.

LOL! That's your opinion, I suppose (though it seems quite clear you've never actually traveled outside your country). However, what if I wanted to judge whether a country "sucked" or not on, say, the availability of free healthcare... :rolleyes:

First of all, I never said any of the European countries "sucked," I said that by the American definition, their economies suck, which they do.

Unless you want to pretend stagnant economic growth rates, chronically high unemployment, laws and regulations that completely hamstring entrepreneurship, very high national debts, and so forth, equate somehow to a good economy.

And BTW, European healthcare isn't free. It's paid for by the citizens, because so much of their wages are garnished and through ultra-high gasoline taxes so that everyone has to drive a very small car or one with a diesel engine.

The European social service systems are going to find themselves in trouble soon as so many of their elderly begin retiring while too few people are going to be paying into the system and there isn't enough economic growth or job creation.

Saying that the US has the richest economy in the world is completely different to saying that individually Americans are the wealthiest people in the world.

I never said Americans are individually the wealthiest. On an overall per capita basis, they're among the richest however. But there are nations with higher per capitas incomes as well. As a population, they are the richest.

Maybe you should start using some references instead of just trying to shout to win an argument.

I'm not shouting to win the argument, just using capitals to emphasize a point that is very obvious. It's simple math. 5% of world population with richest economy and among the highest per capita incomes, you can pretty much safely say Americans are the richest 5%.

Did I say that, or did I instead counter your comment that "In fact, one would think obesity would be more prevalent in those who earn at least $250K because those are your worker-bees who lack the time to workout, and also white-collar jobs tend to be more sitting on one's butt."

You said:

"But Palin is also wealthy: obesity is prevalent in people who take home close to the average wage, not a family whose breadwinners are a governor and an engineer with a combined salary of around $250,000!"

Her and Todd making $250K does not automatically equate to fitness.

Did I counter you comment by simply speculating like you do? Oh no, wait a minute, I used a published, peer-reviewed article to support my argument. Have you got any support for your arguments?

I do not need any peer-reviewed articles for this argument. Wealth does not lead to fitness. If anyone peer-reviewed article says that, it was written by idiots. You might find that the TREND among higher-earners is to be thinner, while the TREND among the lower-earners is to be fatter, but money doesn't equate to fitness unto itself. Fitness is very simple: physical exercise and eating healthy.

Oh, and by the way, stop putting words in my mouth. Comments like "As for semantics, you're the one who claims that "wealth" automatically equals fitness, which is silly" are completely misrepresenting what I have actually said. I could make up lies about you if I really wanted, but I doubt I could do as well as you're doing to yourself!

"But Palin is also wealthy: obesity is prevalent in people who take home close to the average wage, not a family whose breadwinners are a governor and an engineer with a combined salary of around $250,000!"

So because they earn a combined salary of $250K, this automatically means they are both fit...?
 
  • #93
WheelsRCool said:
Where on Earth do you get the impression I am saying this? I'm talking about as a POPULATION, the U.S. is the richest 5%.

That's fine: if you're saying that the US has the biggest economy in the world, then there's no argument!



[/quote] so that everyone has to drive a very small car or one with a diesel engine. [/quote]

It's probably better for everyone if we use less fuel!


I never said Americans are individually the wealthiest.

I'm not shouting to win the argument, just using capitals to emphasize a point that is very obvious. It's simple math. 5% of world population with richest economy and among the highest per capita incomes, you can pretty much safely say Americans are the richest 5%.

Firstly, your two sentences contradict one another. Secondly if you insist on using "math," then you should realize that phrases like "among" and "can pretty much safely say" are not strict mathematical term, and so have no meaning. Thus, your "simple math" is just bogus statistics.



"But Palin is also wealthy: obesity is prevalent in people who take home close to the average wage, not a family whose breadwinners are a governor and an engineer with a combined salary of around $250,000!"

Her and Todd making $250K does not automatically equate to fitness.

Are we going to have to dig out the dictionary again? Prevalent, means widespread, or most common. Thus, I said obesity is most common in lower earning families. I did not say that money "equates to fitness." My point was merely that keeping in shape, when taking home a high income, is not an impressive feat. I then cited a reference to support the fact that high income is negatively correlated with obesity.


I do not need any peer-reviewed articles for this argument. Wealth does not lead to fitness. If anyone peer-reviewed article says that, it was written by idiots. You might find that the TREND among higher-earners is to be thinner, while the TREND among the lower-earners is to be fatter, but money doesn't equate to fitness unto itself.

You don't understand an argument with simple scientific support, do you? That's very bizarre for someone on a physics forum!
 
  • #94
It's probably better for everyone if we use less fuel!

Sure, but not for people to be forced to because bureaucrats "feel" the people should.

Firstly, your two sentences contradict one another. Secondly if you insist on using "math," then you should realize that phrases like "among" and "can pretty much safely say" are not strict mathematical term, and so have no meaning. Thus, your "simple math" is just bogus statistics.

Americans have among the highest per capita incomes in the world. I didn't say they have THE highest. As for the "can pretty much safely say," okay then one can flat-out say Americans are the richest 5%.

Are we going to have to dig out the dictionary again? Prevalent, means widespread, or most common. Thus, I said obesity is most common in lower earning families. I did not say that money "equates to fitness." My point was merely that keeping in shape, when taking home a high income, is not an impressive feat.

Alot of people would highly disagree with that assertion. Keeping in shape under any income is an impressive feat, because it takes hard work.

High incomes usually require hard work. People do not earn high incomes via "luck" the way the left like to imply, it takes working your tale off for the most part. And that takes up a lot of time. Being able to fit in a workout on a busy schedule can be tough.

You don't understand an argument with simple scientific support, do you? That's very bizarre for someone on a physics forum!

If the argument is that obesity is more prevalent in lower-earning families, that I understand perfectly.

If the argument is that "taking home a high income makes keeping in shape far easier," that is very arbitrary because it depends.
 
  • #95
guys, fuel is money. the more you burn, the more you earn. that's why the US has the world's largest economy. and that's one of the reasons the rest of the world wants us to use less energy. sure, we can improve profit margins and production by doing things more efficiently... but economic growth still requires energy. and if we start shrinking our energy use, we also start shrinking our economy, whilst growing the economies of others.
 
  • #96
WheelsRCool said:
As for the "can pretty much safely say," okay then one can flat-out say Americans are the richest 5%.

Ok, then 'one' would be flat-out incorrect.


Anyway, this discussion is over, since it now has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
 
  • #97
Incorrect. The American population are the wealthiest 5% in the world. On a per capita basis, countries like Switzerland, Monaco, Cayman Islands, etc...are wealthier. But as a country, America is the wealthiest and it is 5% of the global population.
 
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  • #98
WheelsRCool said:
Incorrect. The American population are the wealthiest 5% in the world. On a per capita basis, countries like Switzerland, Monaco, Cayman Islands, etc...are wealthier. But as a country, America is the wealthiest and it is 5% of the global population.

What does this have to do with Sarah Palin?
 
  • #99
Cyrus said:
What does this have to do with Sarah Palin?

Nothing. It was something we were/are debating however. It sprang off of our Sarah Palin debate.
 
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  • #100
whatever floats your boat.
 

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