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[revelator]

NEVER call Stockwell Day a fool in that degrading context. I met him in person at a conservative party MP gathering after the last election (I was working for MP Dale Johnston so I was invited). Let me tell you a story, which will hopefully depict why I get heated when people degrade him.

At this gathering, I met multiple MP's, I would go around introducing myself (15, almost 16 at the time) and talking to them. I went up to Belinda Stronach and introduced myself to her. She basically muttered hi, turned away and ignored me, as if I was some kid of unimportance not worthy of talking to her. I was shocked at her rudeness, and now that she's a Liberal it all becomes clear that her spot was never as an MP of the Conservative party...Liberals suit her much better.

So after that, I went up to Stockwell day to introduce myself. He greeted and shook hands with me, asked about what I did, conversed for about 5 before excusing himself to go talk to some other members. He didn't let the fact that I'm a kid prevent him from treating me as an adult, not only an adult, but with equal respect as he gave to other MP's. I respect him for that. He is a great man, and you cannot deny that he has the charisma everyone claims the Conservatives are lacking.

So I would be very interested in hearing why you see him as a fool...your comment was not supported, and from what you have said I see no reasoning behind your insult.

From your experience, I'd say he shows more consideration and politeness than do many politicians.

I call him a fool (just my opinion), mostly as a result of his creationist views, and the various stupid things he's said back when he was the Alliance leader.

During the 2000 election, Day makes a campaign stop at a high-tech firm in Ontario and gives a speech about the brain drain of skilled people from Canada to the US. Reporters quickly discover the owner of the company had moved from the US to Canada in 1992.

The very next day in Niagara Falls, Day makes another speech about Canadian jobs flowing south just like the Niagara River. Proving that Canadian news doesn't rely on the he-said-she-said "objective" journalistic style of the US, reporters take it upon themselves to point out that the Niagara River flows north.

In March of 2003, Day and Harper co-wrote a letter to The Wall Street Journal in which they condemned the Canadian government's unwillingness to participate in the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

I know that last one there only applies if your one of the folks who believes the War in Iraq is a terrible idea. I'll be happy to post reasons for my thinking Day is a fool, as I dig them up.

 

[revelator]

Some more Harper quotes that irk me..

Human rights commissions, as they are evolving, are an attack on our fundamental freedoms and the basic existence of a democratic society... It is in fact totalitarianism. I find this is very scary stuff.
(BC Report Newsmagazine, January 11, 1999)

I don't know all the facts on Iraq, but I think we should work closely with the Americans.(Report Newsmagazine, March 25 2002)

On the justification for the war, it wasn't related to finding any particular weapon of mass destruction. … I think, frankly, that everybody knew the post-war situation was probably going to be more difficult than the war itself. Canada remains alienated from its allies, shut out of the reconstruction process to some degree, unable to influence events. There is no upside to the position Canada took.” (Maclean’s, August, 25, 2003)

"Universality has been severely reduced: it is virtually dead as a concept in most areas of public policy…These achievements are due in part to the Reform Party…”
(Speech to the Colin Brown Memorial Dinner, National Citizens Coalition, 1994)

"You've got to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into western Canadian society." (Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, January 22, 2001)

"It was the Conservative party that urged the government to enter into negotiations with the United States on BMD in the first place. We supported the decision to be involved in missile defence through last summer’s amendment to the NORAD treaty."
(letter to the Ottawa Citizen March 04, 2005.)

 

[Dagenais]

Stephen Harper says he will the put the gay marriage issue to a free vote in the House. What he doesn't understand is that it doesn't matter how many people have a particular opinion if that opinion is fundamentally prejudiced and fundamentally wrong.

Fundamentally "wrong" depends on who you ask. There are plenty of people who think Harper's stand on gay marriage is fundamentally right.

Plus, he seems a lot more understanding this time around. He's realized his strict approach last year was what lost him the election.

I'm voting conservative this time around because I'm very strongly opposed to gun control.

Harper just made his announcement about gun controls on CBC a few days ago. His stand on gun control and violence involves more time in jail than Martin's (meaning, more money for us to pay for cells).

I can' bring myself to vote Conservative. One reason being is his willingness to drag us into America's wars.

Martin and the Liberals' unwillingness to support the USA, and their recent disparaging of Bush and his party is moronic. Insulting your #1 trading partner? Not smart.

That's exactly it. It's the "lesser of the evils" situation.

The "lesser of evils" according to the last election was Martin. Voting for him is what got us this corrupt(evil) Government, voting for him again will only prove to him that it's okay to be evil, because he'll just get re-elected again.

 

[ShawnD]

Harper just made his announcement about gun controls on CBC a few days ago. His stand on gun control and violence involves more time in jail than Martin's (meaning, more money for us to pay for cells).

I don't exactly support the increased jail time idea, but I do believe that more people having guns would curb crime at least a little bit.
When Britain passed a few laws making it virtually illegal to own guns, crime dramatically increased. Their gun ownership is dropping while their crime is increasing. On the othe side of the coin, America's gun ownership is continually rising while crime decreases. Since comparing two countries is hardly fair, let's throw a few more in. Australia's crime rate also exploded when guns were made illegal. One particularly scary statistic for Australia is that armed robberies increased 170% just after guns were made illegal. If gun ownership lead to problems, we would expect a country like Switzerland to have insane crime. Switzerland is the most heavily armed country in the world (the law basically requires every man to own a gun), yet Switzerland's crime rate is fairly low.

If we want to cut spending on jails, start by reducing crime. Citizens should be armed to the teeth.

 

[Smurf]

gah, I was beginning to like harper, but now it seems like everything I hear makes him more and more of a monster.

 

[Dagenais]

I forgot to add that another reason I'm voting for Harper over Martin is: Chinese redress.

Martin refuses to do it. Harper is pressuring him to do it.

 

[revelator]

The "lesser of evils" according to the last election was Martin. Voting for him is what got us this corrupt(evil) Government, voting for him again will only prove to him that it's okay to be evil, because he'll just get re-elected again.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't support the thieving Liberal Party.

 

[scorpa]

Ughhh the closer we get to the election, the worse everyone looks. At this point I am probably going to go conservative, but I really hate that they all suck so bad.

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

Harper is just as bad as Bush. I can't believe how many people are going to vote for the conservatives. Of course, those who warned them will be saying "I told you so" later, but I would still rather see the country not go to hell.

Libertarianism is one thing, but social conservatism is horrible. Voting for the conservative party shows that you care more about money than social justice.

 

[ek]

Many people used to think blacks were "fundamentally inferior". Some still do.

So just because some people believe something makes it potentially right? Or less prejudiced and morally reprehensible?

I don't think so. There are some issues in the world which are totally black/white, right/wrong.

It's like me saying Jews can't go to schools. Instead they must go to separate "Instructional Institutes". Does that sound right to you?

It blows my mind how people can still believe this right wing neo-con bull****.

 

[scorpa]

It's Monday night and it's looking like a conservative minority is almost a certaintly!

 

[Treadstone 71]

We're all screwed. This is a low point in the history of Canadian politics.

17% of votes went to NDP, but they only have 29 seats; while 10% went to BLOC yet they somehow have 50 seats. WTF?

 

[scorpa]

We're all screwed. This is a low point in the history of Canadian politics.

17% of votes went to NDP, but they only have 29 seats; while 10% went to BLOC yet they somehow have 50 seats. WTF?

I used to know why that happened, but now I can't remember. I'll have to try and find the reason again, or maybe someone on here can explain.

Personally I'm glad to see a conservative government, however the minority situation is unfortunate.

 

[DeadWolfe]

Well, I hope you're all prepared to go to the polls again in a year or two.

Man this sucks.

 

[scorpa]

I'm definitely not looking forward to that!

 

[ShawnD]

We're all screwed. This is a low point in the history of Canadian politics.

17% of votes went to NDP, but they only have 29 seats; while 10% went to BLOC yet they somehow have 50 seats. WTF?

This has always bugged me. I don't want the NDP to win, but at least give them a chance. A few years ago, I think it was 2001, I remember seeing some stats saying the liberals had about 40% of the vote, but they controlled 60% of the seats.

Minority governments generally don't lead to nonconfidence votes being passed. It just means they need to get other party support before they try to pass anything. Simply put, the government sits on its thumbs for a few years until a majority government is formed.

 

[Aneleh]

wow conservative minority... I supported NDP because of their candidate in my riding who has proved to be very competent (has been re-elected), but I wouldn't like to see an NDP government.. hmm I guess we'll just have to see how the Conservatives do, and hopefully the Liberals will get their act together in the meantime.

 

[SOS2008]

Since Harper was expected to move Canada to the right on issues, including social issues, you may find yourselves relieved if the Conservative’s victory margin is too narrow, thus making it difficult to get legislation through a divided House of Commons.

Let’s hope you will have your cake and eat it too—sending a message against corruption, but avoiding similar problems in the U.S. such as the culture war over Roe v. Wade. And it may prevent the world from ridiculing you for electing someone like Bush...it may...

Ah, the wonders of a multi-party system. Come on, cheer up. You’re still doing better then your neighbor (damn Yanks).

 

[revelator]

Personally I'm relatively happy with how this turned out. The Liberals have been unseated, which was vital, and the Conservatives have a short leash on them thanks to the minority.

I voted NDP but it didn't do much in my riding. Seems I'm living in a Liberal stronghold.

 

[DeadWolfe]

What exactly is it that you guys think the conservatives would do if they had a majority government?

 

[revelator]

Mostly I think they'd start gutting programs and cutting taxes, pull us out of Kyoto Accord, re-open the gay marriage debate. They'd probably go joining in on Bush's misadventures.

 

[DeadWolfe]

What's everyone's problem with pulling otu of Kyoto.

 

[Danger]

I think I'm going to be sick.
It never crossed my mind that we'd be stupid enough to put Harper into office. Despite him being such a raging homophobe, he'll be in bed with Bush before the dust has settled.
Effects of Harper in office (dependent upon leash length):
1) negation of gay rights
2) criminalization of abortion
3) Canadian troops in Iraq
4) teaching of ID in school
5) removal of common-law spousal rights
6) general fanatical Christian policies
Unfortunately, my Legion vows preclude the advocation of violent overthrow.

 

[Zlex]

Personally I'm relatively happy with how this turned out. The Liberals have been unseated, which was vital, and the Conservatives have a short leash on them thanks to the minority.

I voted NDP but it didn't do much in my riding. Seems I'm living in a Liberal stronghold.

I think most are happy with the outcome, I don't think there could have been a better one.

I for one welcome the new Conservative MINORITY government.

I can live with a Harper led guv, as long as it's minority.

 

[Treadstone 71]

A minority government usually lasts an average of 18 months. I give Harper that much time before the Conservatives fall.

 

[fourier jr]

I think most are happy with the outcome, I don't think there could have been a better one.
I for one welcome the new Conservative MINORITY government.
I can live with a Harper led guv, as long as it's minority.

yeah me too. I'm going to keep in mind the following winston churchill quotation: "the greatest argument against democracy is a 5min conversation with the average voter" maybe not all the people who voted conservative (if they're poor ppl, minorities) will end up liking them.

i had to vote ndp because i can't stand either faction of the business party & the ndp is closest (among any party that has a chance) to my ideal party. i doubt that a party i would REALLY support would get elected anytime soon. they'd have to be for creating a national power grid & getting the govt involved in the economy. in other words banning exports of raw materials & steel/aluminum/etc, cutting back foreign ownership/control, creating indigenous industries rather than branch plants, nationalizing oil/gas, putting premiers like ralph klein & gordon campbell in their place, etc.

 

[revelator]

I think I'm going to be sick.
It never crossed my mind that we'd be stupid enough to put Harper into office. Despite him being such a raging homophobe, he'll be in bed with Bush before the dust has settled.
Effects of Harper in office (dependent upon leash length):
1) negation of gay rights
2) criminalization of abortion
3) Canadian troops in Iraq
4) teaching of ID in school
5) removal of common-law spousal rights
6) general fanatical Christian policies
Unfortunately, my Legion vows preclude the advocation of violent overthrow.

The opposition is too strong for any of those things to pass. No point worrying about any of these things under the current government.

I for one welcome our new Conservative overlords

 

[SOS2008]

The opposition is too strong for any of those things to pass. No point worrying about any of these things under the current government.
I for one welcome our new Conservative overlords

Learn from the U.S., and hang on tight to that leash. Monitor everything they try to do and be sure your voice is heard (petitions, contacting you reps., etc.) – don’t be complacent.

The religious right in the U.S. drowns out all other voices, so it looks like Alito is about to be confirmed. I fear for the power that may be transferred to the executive, and loss of rights for American citizens.

 

[ShawnD]

i had to vote ndp because i can't stand either faction of the business party & the ndp is closest (among any party that has a chance) to my ideal party. i doubt that a party i would REALLY support would get elected anytime soon. they'd have to be for creating a national power grid & getting the govt involved in the economy. in other words banning exports of raw materials & steel/aluminum/etc, cutting back foreign ownership/control, creating indigenous industries rather than branch plants, nationalizing oil/gas, putting premiers like ralph klein & gordon campbell in their place, etc.

In other words, stockpile resources and eliminate all trade?

 

[subodei]

yeah me too. I'm going to keep in mind the following winston churchill quotation: "the greatest argument against democracy is a 5min conversation with the average voter" maybe not all the people who voted conservative (if they're poor ppl, minorities) will end up liking them.
i had to vote ndp because i can't stand either faction of the business party & the ndp is closest (among any party that has a chance) to my ideal party. i doubt that a party i would REALLY support would get elected anytime soon. they'd have to be for creating a national power grid & getting the govt involved in the economy. in other words banning exports of raw materials & steel/aluminum/etc, cutting back foreign ownership/control, creating indigenous industries rather than branch plants, nationalizing oil/gas, putting premiers like ralph klein & gordon campbell in their place, etc.

You quote Churchhilll..

I wonder if you know what he would think about your ideas on trade?

Answer: He would think you are an argument against democracy.

Churchhill was not only rightwing and a brilliant leader, but he was well aware of the simple fact that free trade is the foundation of prosperity in the west. If Canada took your advice, they would be a third world country in a matter of years.

This whole thread is somewhat ridiculous - if Canada's rightwing believes in universal healthcare, childcare subsidies, wealth redistribution, tax cuts for the poor, and so on.. Canada is not in bad shape at all.

Comparisons to Bush are totally unfounded as Stephen Harper is STILL more liberal than John Kerry, Howard Dean, Ralph Nader and Noam Chomsky.

American liberals are still not as liberal as Canadian conservatives.

On top of that, Bush is not even indicative of conservative movements worldwide, since generally conservatism is based on principles of economic freedom and Bush has expanded government more than any President since FDR - to name just ONE issue. Bush is an anomaly and remains the shame of all Americans. His failure transcends party lines and certainly doesn't reflect on non-American conservatives.