Why do microcontrollers fail in a Vacuum?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the failure of microcontrollers, specifically Arduino and Raspberry Pi, when used in a vacuum chamber environment. Participants explore potential causes for the devices powering off at -30inHg, examining hardware limitations, thermal management, and component behavior under vacuum conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants report that the devices powered off and did not reboot, raising questions about the nature of the power failure.
  • There is speculation that overheating could occur due to the lack of air for heat dissipation, despite some participants asserting that the devices did not overheat.
  • Concerns are raised about the integrity of components, such as electrolytic capacitors, and whether they could fail in a vacuum.
  • Participants discuss the possibility of a blown fuse affecting power supply, particularly under extreme conditions.
  • Some suggest that the design of the devices may not account for thermal management in a vacuum, leading to overheating of components.
  • There is mention of the need for a conductive path for cooling and the limitations of radiative cooling in a vacuum environment.
  • One participant humorously notes that software is not affected by vacuum conditions, but hardware is susceptible to failure under extreme conditions.
  • Suggestions are made to modify the operation of the devices to minimize power usage and heat generation during data logging.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the cause of the failures, with some attributing it to overheating while others question the power supply integrity. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing hypotheses about the failure mechanisms at play.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding component specifications and limitations under vacuum conditions, as well as the potential for moisture and thermal management issues that may not have been fully explored.

Tech2025
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I was trying to log data inside a vacuum chamber, tried an arduino and a rasperry pi. When reaching -30inHg the devices just stopped working, they powered off, no data in or out and would not work ever again. Why? And no, they did not overheat.
 
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Tech2025 said:
I was trying to log data inside a vacuum chamber, tried an arduino and a rasperry pi. When reaching -30inHg the devices just stopped working, they powered off, no data in or out and would not work ever again. Why? And no, they did not overheat.
When you pulled them out to analyze the failure, what did you find? Are there any electrolytic caps on the board?
 
berkeman said:
When you pulled them out to analyze the failure, what did you find? Are there any electrolytic caps on the board?
Yes, but those seem fine, were not bloated and no signs of leakage.
 
Tech2025 said:
Yes, but those seem fine, were not bloated and no signs of leakage.
It sounded like you were saying the power failed. What do you measure when you try to power it up?
 
berkeman said:
It sounded like you were saying the power failed. What do you measure when you try to power it up?
I haven't tried measure that yet, but the power supply is not the issue
 
Also, can you post the schematic for anything that was in the vacuum?
 
Tech2025 said:
but the power supply is not the issue
Tech2025 said:
the devices just stopped working, they powered off,
What do you mean by that?
 
  • #10
berkeman said:
What do you mean by that?
Well exactly what I mean, at -30inHg they just powered off and would not reboot
 
  • #11
No, I was asking about the "powered off" part. How can the board power itself off and there not be a power supply problem? You said it still doesn't work out of the chamber, so presumably it is still not powering up, no?
 
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  • #13
Tech2025 said:
And no, they did not overheat.

How do you know?
 
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  • #14
I would guess that some component overheated. Berekeman's fuse suggestion seems like a good thought as well, since the fuse could easily blow far below rated with no cooling.
 
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  • #15
Tech2025 said:
And no, they did not overheat.

Vanadium 50 said:
How do you know?

cjl said:
I would guess that some component overheated. Berekeman's fuse suggestion seems like a good thought as well, since the fuse could easily blow far below rated with no cooling.

exactly ... with no air to aid in the convection/conduction of heat away ... components could easily overheat and fail
 
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  • #16
Don't let your preconceptions or intuitions rule your view. The unit failed. Software is immune to a vacuum (unless the programmer forgot to write it but that's another issue - software joke :-) ) but hardware is not. Hardware will fail in extreme conditions of high pressure or low pressure, of high temperature or low temperature. In your case, the extreme condition is no pressure, no air and no means to conduct the heat away and so it failed.

In high pressure situations, like deep ocean sensing equipment, you can get a loss of power from your batteries as they get compressed under the weight of the water and from the coldness of the environment.
 
  • #17
As well as the overall heating, some ICs have defined heating rate limits. Ordinary humidity can lead to moisture absorbed in
minute gaps near the pins, heating too fast can lead to failure as the vapor exerts pressure before it can exit. It may seem odd but it is routine for ICs to be packaged in controlled-humidity packages and the soldering /heating ramp rates to have critical limits defined by the manufacturers.
 
  • #18
I would power up the Pi and check the power rails. Might be the regulators are the first to overheat?
 
Last edited:
  • #19
Discussion here..

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=102367

You cannot count on radiative cooling of electronics in a hard vacuum.

At 85C the RPi's SoC radiates just 145mW, and gets 65mW back from the walls of the vacuum chamber (at 20C). Compare that with 300-600mW power consumption. In order to shed 600mW the chip must reach 250C!

A conductive path is needed to cool the chip. In the case of the RPi conduction to the PCB may be enough, but I wouldn't count on it.
.

If it is overheating perhaps you can modify your software so the Pi only needs to be powered up briefly when a sample is required and powered down between samples?
 
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