Why do people have such a strong dislike for SUVs?

[one_raven]

When you think about it, ideally, in the interest of public safety, all cars really should be same. The logic seems unavoidable...eventually.

You'd have a civil war on your hands if you try and legislate American's "individuality" away.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No doubt these are fight'n words, and I don't expect anything tomorrow, but the precedent is already established that the public good outweighs an individual’s right to choice, even if this public good is purely a financial impact - using the seat belt law as but one cheesy example. The status quo demands that dangerous products and practices are unacceptable. Here I am torn. I demand my rights to choice, but I can't escape the logic of things like SUVs and ten foot PU trucks with five foot tires rolling over my wife while she is driving the Toyota; all because we choose to make responsible purchasing decisions that act in everyones interest.

 

[Dagenais]

why should i have to accommodate my car because of how SUV's are made? as i also said, when people choose to stop right behind me in their SUV, their headlights shine right into my car, which is annoying with a big beam of bright light glaring in with me and my kids.

You shouldn't have to. The SUV I have came standard with a light dimmer in the rear-view mirror.

suburbs are doing so for status reasons more then practical reasons.

What status? You can get one for under $20,000USD.

and the lighter the car does not mean it is automatically more unsafe, it depends on the safety feature of the car itself. mine has side airbags as well as the standard ones in the front as well as anti-lock breaks.

Most Durangos offer side airbags and curtains, as well as anti-lock brakes. Not to mention, you're up higher so you can see the road better. A key reason why many people drive SUVs, you are lofted up higher.

on't buy they are more safe because my mother was hit with a tiny little honda in her Dodge Durango. the Durango was totalled when the honda hit her at 40mph breaking her leg and putting her in the hospital due to the damage of the Dodge.

one year later after she bought herself a new Chevy Monte Carlo (one of the safer cars), she was again hit at about 40mph and walked away a little shaken but not hurt. if an SUV hits my car as oppossed to a Camry or similar car, most likely the SUV will do more damage to me then a standard car.

Twice in 2 years? Wow, your mom should be more careful out there. That's a lot of dangerous collisions. :(

That's just one example. IIHS did a test on this crashing sedans into SUVs, and the Sports Ultility Vehicles did better in the test.

MrTraffic.com:

A newly released study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety shows that when a car is hit by a light truck or SUV, the car is the loser. But IIHS spokesmen told the Washington Post that the report is meant to bring perspective to the car/light truck crash debate. The study shows that passengers in cars are four times more likely to die than those in pickup or sports utility vehicles.

This is what is being called a fight between automotive Gullivers and Lilliputians between 1990 and 1995. Statistics showed that if a small cars weighting less than 2,500 pounds is stuck in the side by a SUV, occupants of the car are 47 times more likely to die. By comparison, when a car hits another auto in the side there are six deaths in the car being hit for every one in the striking vehicle.

They cite the example of a pickup trucks in the 3,500-4,000 pound class, such as the Ford F150 or GMC 1500, that hits another vehicle. More than twice as many die in the other vehicles than the trucks: 115 to 52. But when a car in the same weight range, such as a Ford Taurus or Chevy Lumina , crashes with another vehicle the death ratio is 57 in the other vehicle to 53 inside the large car. And, for crashes involving sport utility vehicles, the ratio is 92 deaths in the other vehicles to 37 in the sport utility.

Littering does actually serve a purpose...it gets trash out of your hand faster than if you took the time to find a trash can. Also, some people think it makes them look cool, the same reason some people drive SUVs. Face it, if you don't have 4+ kids, and you don't have an occupational or recreational reason to tote around lots of cr*p, then an SUV is useless

Like I said previously, lots of things in American/Euro cars are useless. Do you really need anything more than a 4-cylinder engine, or leather seats and a CD-changer?

Furthermore it endangers everyone else on the road. And even though you don't seem to think that matters, it matters to the rest of us. I believe I remember you saying, "sucks to be the other guy". That's not exactly a humanitarian viewpoint. Last time I checked, other lives besides your's matter.

Then buy an SUV.

Stop blaming SUV owners and manufacturers for your problems. You act as if SUV drivers want to get into collisions with you.

So, uh, what happens when one SUV hits another one?

Nothing, because just before they collide one SUV switches into 4WD and manufavers away in the slippery road.

In fact, it is THE safety issue when it comes to SUV's. So much more than the roll-over issue.

Oh really, that's odd, since most people mention the roll-over issue first.

Again, your problem can be fixed - drive carefully.

The larger SUV's (when people complain abour SUV's, they aren't complaining about Rav4's and other toys) are bigger, heavier, more difficult to maneuver and, despite the higher view of the road, they are often involved in accident due to the drivers misjudging distance and not seeing other cars on the road.

Again, they aren't driving safely. Report them to ICBC or something.

Plus morons who think that 4-whhel drive means they can drive 65 MPH through the snow.

Tell them to read there owner's manual.

I know you have seen a monster SUV with a 5 foot 1 soccer mom straining to see over the dash and having a blind-spot behind their truck the size of a 747 in the supermarket parking lot backing up and simply expecting people to stop for her because they MUST be able to see her behemoth even if she can't see the Honda directly behind her.

Then drive away from her.

Uhhh, no...
Actually GM has plans of putting out an even smaller H3 because the H2 sales have dropped off so drastically. Fewer and fewer people are buying the big guns all the time.

Due to unfavorable reviews. It was selling extremely well during it's debut before the reviews came out. All sorts of celebreties, yuppies and atheletes were driving those things.

Then the reviews came out saying the H2 was a fad, it was too hefty, the engine was too weak to tow anything (with the weight of the car), acceleration was sluggish etc.

The Escalade is still doing very well and the reviews for them have been great.

- SUV's (minimum size debatable), anything with 4-wheel drive

You can get huge SUV's without 4WD. A lot of SUV drivers don't have 4WD since it is a costly option.

Here I am torn. I demand my rights to choice, but I can't escape the logic of things like SUVs and ten foot PU trucks with five foot tires rolling over my wife while she is driving the Toyota; all because we choose to make responsible purchasing decisions that act in everyones interest.

Tell her to trade in her Toyota for a Toyota.

Toyota has worked on a new bumper for their latest 4-Runner which is suppose to help others in collisions.

SUVs get better every day :)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

SUVs get better every day :)

As compared to what? There is a fundamental problem of size and weight. This is not going to go away. This is like making a safe cigarette; if it was safe, fundamentally it wouldn't be a cigarette.

 

[Jenn_ucsb]

Then buy an SUV.

Stop blaming SUV owners and manufacturers for your problems. You act as if SUV drivers want to get into collisions with you.

Why would I buy an SUV? If I felt unsafe because everyone was carrying grenades in their pockets, should I go buy a grenade? I have absolutely no need for one, and I really like the sky to be blue, not yellowish grey. So, I'll stick to a fuel efficient sedan and a bike.

It seems that I am not the one with the "problems".

My favorite saying is, "when three people tell you you're drunk, sit down." Well, you've got tons of people in this forum that disagree with you, and you are still arrogant enough to believe that we are all talking out our bums.

Do you know what is to blame for this problem? The attitude that others' safety and the status of the environment don't matter as much as getting your own personal wants met. Its called hedonism. Its a selfish, childish, empty way to live life.

And, how can you interpret my addressing a safety issue as me "acting as if SUV drivers want to get into collisions with me"? What I want is to know that if I am ever involved in an accident, that it's not going to be because some narcissist in a Durango lost control of their tank. Accidents happen (lots of them) and I think it is in the public's best interest if people are not driving vehicles that are more dangerous to those around them than is necessary.

 

[Hurkyl]

You act as if SUV drivers want to get into collisions with you.

It's called negligence at best. Reckless endangerment at worst.

SUVs are inherently more dangerous to others than ordinary cars, yet SUV drivers do not appear, in general, to take more precausions to ensure safety. In fact, it seems quite the opposite, as you gleefully explained how you like blind people on the road that annoy you.

 

[Dagenais]

There is a fundamental problem of size and weight.

Hardly. People buy SUVs because of the size and weight.

So, I'll stick to a fuel efficient sedan and a bike.

Or if you were really worried, the bus and a bike.

he attitude that others' safety and the status of the environment don't matter as much as getting your own personal wants met.

Don't talk to me about the environment. You are of no help to it if you're driving either.

Go take your local trans link or something like I did 2 years ago, if not, stop pretending that you give a crap.

All the environmentalists I've met (a lot), don't even own a sedan.

Its called hedonism

What you're doing is projecting.

In fact, it seems quite the opposite, as you gleefully explained how you like blind people on the road that annoy you.

That "annoy" me. I like the way you substitute: "Cutting me and others off on the highway causing traffic problems" with "annoy". I know a lot of people who would do a lot more than "turn on the lights" which was a joke. Fog lights on anything but Jeeps are way too low to hit any mirror on a car.

Try cutting someone off in the city - you'll get off lucky if all they do is turn on there headlights as opposed to tailing you and waiting for you to get out of the car.

 

[Kerrie]

What status? You can get one for under $20,000USD

stating this is proof of defending your position, and it seems you are really reaching for that defense. you can't even buy a stock RAV-4 for that much, and i know this from my own experience of buying one 7 years ago myself. a RAV-4 is hardly a real SUV, but as i stated before, it is a great compromise for those who wish to sit up higher, have a 4 wheel drive suspension, yet cut out the largeness of vehicle and expenses of a a real SUV.

They cite the example of a pickup trucks in the 3,500-4,000 pound class, such as the Ford F150 or GMC 1500, that hits another vehicle. More than twice as many die in the other vehicles than the trucks: 115 to 52. But when a car in the same weight range, such as a Ford Taurus or Chevy Lumina , crashes with another vehicle the death ratio is 57 in the other vehicle to 53 inside the large car. And, for crashes involving sport utility vehicles, the ratio is 92 deaths in the other vehicles to 37 in the sport utility.

did you even read this? SUV's are dangerous to other cars on the road. that is the point here many are making in this thread, thus answering your question of why the SUV hatred. THEY ARE DANGEROUS TO OTHER CARS ON THE ROAD

Twice in 2 years? Wow, your mom should be more careful out there. That's a lot of dangerous collisions. :(

a blatant ignorant statement that is not helping the reputation of SUV drivers. both accidents were not her fault. stop making assumptions, when you do, you make an ASS out of U and ME.

 

[Hurkyl]

That "annoy" me. I like the way you substitute: "Cutting me and others off on the highway causing traffic problems" with "annoy". I know a lot of people who would do a lot more than "turn on the lights" which was a joke.
Try cutting someone off in the city - you'll get off lucky if all they do is turn on there headlights as opposed to tailing you and waiting for you to get out of the car.

It wasn't a substitution; it was an inference.

I do like how you try to rationalize your behavior, though, by arguing that there are a couple people out there that would do worse.

 

[Dagenais]

i know this from my own experience of buying one 7 years ago myself. a RAV-4 is hardly a real SUV,

It's still in the SUV segment - therefore an SUV. If it was up to you, everything safe is not an SUV, and everything else that sucks is.

THEY ARE DANGEROUS TO OTHER CARS ON THE ROAD

When they are caught in collisions. However, there 4WD gives extra traction when wet making them safer on the road and to other cars.

Also, if the driver is aware, then there is nothing to worry about.

a blatant ignorant statement that is not helping the reputation of SUV drivers. both accidents were not her fault. stop making assumptions, when you do, you make an ASS out of U and ME.

I've never had an accident, and there were a lot of close calls. It's called being aware. Like the NHTSA says, crashes can be avoided if the driver is aware, and 2 collisions in 2 years is a high rate.

"Accidents are defined as unexpected, unavoidable events. And in many people's minds, the word also suggests an event due solely to fortune or chance. But crashes and injuries aren't unforeseeable or unavoidable at all. They're both predictable and preventable."

"You don't have to be psychic to predict if a driver runs a red light, speeds, drives drunk or breaks other rules of the road that the likelihood of a crash goes way up."

there are reasons why people would need an SUV as i stated in my previous post, and there is also a reason why parts, gas and especially insurance rates are higher on SUV's.

Insurance rates are just find if the driver has a good record. Parts are pretty cheap for domestic cars, or at least cheaper than your average European sedan.

 

[Dagenais]

I do like how you try to rationalize your behavior, though, by arguing that there are a couple people out there that would do worse.

As I already mentioned, I don't blind people. I said that just to push the ridiculous stereotype since you believe that SUV drivers are reckless tyrants.

First, anyone with sense realizes that stock fog lights on a Dodge or any mid-size SUV aside from the old Jeep GCs aren't high enough to hit the rear-view mirror. They are well below the main headlights, placed just to the side of the bumpers used to light the road.

http://www.dodge.com/durango/img/durango_st.jpg

Secondly, if you've ever been caught in the city cutting people off you'll know what I mean by "people could do worse." Try it sometime and you'll see.

 

[Hurkyl]

I do like how you try to rationalize your behavior, though, by arguing that there are a couple people out there that would do worse, character assassination, and that a part of your behavior may be irrelevant.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Hurkyl, Dagenais went to the trouble of getting blackbody mirrors; take it easy.

 

[Dagenais]

SUVs are inherently more dangerous to others than ordinary cars, yet SUV drivers do not appear, in general, to take more precausions to ensure safety.

Wow, did you ask all the SUV drivers what precautions they take?

What would you like them to do? Slap a "Yield" sign at the back of their car like a bus? Or how about one of those stop signs found on school buses?

As long as they drive carefully, they are taking precautions. The rest is up to the manufacturers to make the cars safer.

 

[Dagenais]

Hurkyl, Dagenais went to the trouble of getting blackbody mirrors; take it easy

They came standard. They are standard on many Sports Utility Vehicles, as are other extra safety features.

I do like how you try to rationalize your behavior, though

As I already mentioned, I don't blind people. I said that just to push the ridiculous stereotype since you believe that SUV drivers are reckless tyrants.

 

[cookiemonster]

So really, what happens after everybody goes out and buys an SUV? Are SUV-SUV collisions more safe or less safe than car-car collisions?

cookiemonster

 

[Kerrie]

he asks why many do not like SUV drivers, he gets his answers, and doesn't like what he hears...were you looking for an argument, or did you want honest answers? this topic is an attempt to justify and rationalize your position as an SUV owner because of all the negative flack you are under.

It's still in the SUV segment - therefore an SUV. If it was up to you, everything safe is not an SUV, and everything else that sucks is.

but it can't tow more then an ordinary car...this is a major differentiating fact of smaller 4 door wagons compared to the suspension of a truck/heavy duty SUV...the RAV-4 was actually based on a Camry when I bought mine.

When they are caught in collisions. However, there 4WD gives extra traction when wet making them safer on the road and to other cars.

accidents are caused also by human error-especially those who are pompous and feel they indestructable in their big rig...as you said yourself:

Like the NHTSA says, crashes can be avoided if the driver is aware

i highly doubt you will be effective in changing anyone's mind regarding the "typical" SUV driver at this point with your attempts at justifying why it is okay to drive an SUV full time. unfortunately, you have made the negative impression i have already of SUV drivers (who choose to drive one for daily needs that live in cities and suburbs) even more valid.

 

[Kerrie]

So really, what happens after everybody goes out and buys an SUV? Are SUV-SUV collisions more safe or less safe than car-car collisions?

cookiemonster

i think that is more dependent on the vehicle itself and the circumstances. but now, many SUV's are getting a lower trade in value due to the rising gas prices. i don't see it getting any better at this point either.

 

[Kerrie]

As I already mentioned, I don't blind people. I said that just to push the ridiculous stereotype since you believe that SUV drivers are reckless tyrants.

First, anyone with sense realizes that stock fog lights on a Dodge or any mid-size SUV aside from the old Jeep GCs aren't high enough to hit the rear-view mirror. They are well below the main headlights, placed just to the side of the bumpers used to light the road.

http://www.dodge.com/durango/img/durango_st.jpg

be realistic...many SUV drivers are driving older rigs because the new car prices reach $40K and higher. with 20% down on that, your payments for 5 years at 8% interest rate are well over $600 a month. don't forget your insurance rates, gas and maintenance-oil changes run higher due to the increased oil use. great, just what we need during this sensitive time in the middle east.

 

[Hurkyl]

As I already mentioned, I don't blind people.

If so, I find it odd that you'd spend effort defending such behavior.



Oh, and BTW, night-vision rear view mirrors are standard on everything. They dim ordinary headlights to tolerable levels. They dim brighter lighting to not quite so tolerable levels. And even if it could dim such lights to tolerable levels, the mirror is still rendered useless because all you can see in it is the headlights.

And, of course, don't forget that side view mirrors don't have this feature; the only solution for those is to simply tilt the mirror down so you can't see anything in it.

In any case, the driver is deprived of his/her usual field of vision.

 

[The_Professional]

I really enjoy driving my gas guzzling SUV. The high seat, the sunroof, being able to accommodate a lot of people and load, the ability to switch from 2 wheel to 4 wheel with the turn of a knob,everything.

 

[Dagenais]

i highly doubt you will be effective in changing anyone's mind regarding the "typical" SUV driver at this point with your attempts at justifying why it is okay to drive an SUV full time

Why isn't it okay? Because of the "enviroment"?

Unless you've been taking your public transit for the past few years like I have, don't even dare bring that up with me.

In Canada, we care about the environment but SUVs are extremely popular. Americans should be the to talk about saving the environment because they don't.

 

[Kerrie]

Why isn't it okay? Because of the "enviroment"?

Unless you've been taking your public transit for the past few years like I have, don't even dare bring that up with me.

In Canada, we care about the environment but SUVs are extremely popular. Americans should be the to talk about saving the environment because they don't.

i never said anything regarding the environment. my issue with SUV's that are driven for casual use is they tend to attract the types who are seeking to prove their "status" over using it for practical reasons. that and the fact they are dangerous to other cars should there be some type of accident. it is plain waste when someone is commuting to and from work in a city with well maintained roads in a 15mpg rig, but serves a purpose if you frequently like to drive off the beaten path and need a vehicle that can tolerate a little more rough riding.

as i stated above, you started this thread asking a question, you were given answers that you refute-every single one. not that i judge, but when you are unable to accept anyone else's logic regarding your question posed, it shows you are looking to argue rather then get a meaningful and honest discussion.

 

[Dagenais]

i never said anything regarding the environment. my issue with SUV's that are driven for casual use is they tend to attract the types who are seeking to prove their "status" over using it for practical reasons.

I really don't get what you mean. A typical SUV isn't a $150,000 Mercedes or something, it doesn't tell much about social/financial status.

I was just wondering what the problem with SUVs were, and I refuted because I didn't think they were real problems, or weren't problems to begin with.

SUVs like the 4-Runner actually aide the other car in collisions due to their new bumper (Car and Driver).

The SUV = The USA

It's part of your culture, so I don't see why there is such a strong hatred against a car. Especially since they are only getting better in almost every aspect.

 

[chroot]

The SUV = The USA

You're such a complete dumb****. I swear, everything you've ever posted on pf to date has just been total under-researched, illogical, Neanderthal bull****. I'm close to just declaring you a troll.

- Warren

 

[Adam]

I think that means he doesn't like SUVs... :P

 

[Dagenais]

You're such a complete dumb****. I swear, everything you've ever posted on pf to date has just been total under-researched, illogical, Neanderthal bull****. I'm close to just declaring you a troll.

- Warren

MSNBC:

And I'm sitting in the driver's seat. Yes, your defiantly SUV-hating columnist—the man who once called sport-utility vehicles "the worst development in American culture since fast food," who once stopped letting his kid have play-dates with a neighbor because her parents owned an SUV, the one who said American auto makers would never do anything to wean us off our addiction to gasoline—accepted an invitation from Ford last week to take the new Escape hybrid-powered SUV on a test drive around New York City.

American culture, dumb****. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4724092/

Oh, another article claiming it's American Culture. Time for you to take your daily happy pill.

American Culture

 

[Adam]

Woohoo! Appeal to tradition!

 

[Dagenais]

Woohoo! Appeal to tradition!

The profanity, the anger, the arrogance. Chroot, do you happen to come from the Southern part of the US?

Someone outside his country points out a 'fault' in his mind, in his culture and he attacks saying it isn't true.

Hummers are as much of American culture as Starbucks coffee.

 

[Adam]

Sure, SUVs are a part of USA culture. What has that got to do with them being good, bad, or mediocre? Nothing.