Why do positive and negative charges attract?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the fundamental nature of electric charge, specifically why positive and negative charges attract each other. Participants seek a deeper understanding of the concepts of charge within the context of quantum mechanics and the behavior of particles. The conversation touches on philosophical implications of "why" questions in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire for a deeper and simpler understanding of what it means for a particle to have a positive or negative charge and how this relates to quantum models of atoms.
  • Another participant suggests that many "why" questions in physics lack definitive answers, referencing Richard Feynman's views on the difficulty of such inquiries.
  • Some participants reference the book "QFT in a Nutshell" by Zee, noting its insights into the electromagnetic force and the nature of attraction and repulsion between charges.
  • A participant insists there is a real answer to why opposite charges attract, despite others arguing that particles behave as they do without needing a deeper reason.
  • There is a contention regarding the nature of "why" versus "how" questions in physics, with some asserting that "why" questions lead to philosophical discussions rather than scientific ones.
  • Some participants argue that the constants of physics, including charge, should be treated as "how" questions, while others seek a more fundamental explanation for their existence and behavior.
  • One participant challenges the notion that there must be a definitive reason for the behavior of particles, suggesting that such beliefs may be dogmatic.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of context in answering "why" or "how" questions, suggesting that without a shared understanding, discussions may be unproductive.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of the questions posed. There are competing views on whether "why" questions can be answered within the framework of physics, with some asserting that they lead to philosophical territory while others maintain that a scientific explanation is necessary.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of addressing philosophical questions within a scientific context, particularly regarding the nature of physical constants and the behavior of particles. Participants express varying degrees of certainty about the existence of definitive answers to the questions raised.

  • #61
If they didn't, there would be no existence. Atoms could't form. There would be no light. Subhan Allah wa bihamdihi
 
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  • #62
While it's meaningless to ask "why" on a fundamental concept, the truth is that we don't know what concepts are fundamental, and what we call fundamental physics gets more esoteric as we learn more. In the case of charges attracting and repelling; I think it's possible to answer that in terms of the stationary action principle. And the stationary action principle can be explained in terms of a Feynman path integral formulation. Beyond that, I don't think there are any good answers.

The problem that Feynman was talking about in the explanation is that the stationary action principle formulation isn't any more intuitive than just stating that charges repel. So you are answering one mystery with another. The more fundamental explanation is better because it matches experiment more precisely, but that doesn't mean it is any more understandable or satisfying to a questioning mind. When you ask why, you probably are searching for something more understandable, not something that gives more precise experimental results. But nothing is understandable below a certain level.
 
  • #63
For the moment, there is not a clear why but we can consider this behavior of charges as a "principle" of physics, and it will remain so until a better, unifying principle integrates many of the present "principles".
 
  • #64
Great arguments: we can't understand it just because we cannot ... the same as for quantum mechanics ...
Maybe just try changing attitude for a moment and really search for an answer ...

Do we have in mathematics something allowing only constructions of integer "number"?
Yes we have - so called topological singularities and we call this number as winding number or Conley index or ... topological charge.
So what would be dynamics of such topological solitons? Let us look at simple 2D field configuration for "-" and "+" singularities in different distances:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12405967/fig1_cr.jpg
the first observation is that the closer they are, the weaker stress of the field - down to zero when they finally annihilate.
Practically any field theory we would define here, its spatial derivatives correspond to stress of the field - fields have tendency to minimize energy, what means here that opposite charges attract.

And we are very close to Faber's model of electron, where due to using natural Lagrangian, such 3D analogues get dynamics described by Maxwell's equations ...
 
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