Why do we apply the Euclidean Division, b divided by 3?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the exercise of proving that the expression $17 \cdot 3^{2n+1}+41 \cdot n^2 \cdot 3^{n+1}+2$ is not a perfect square for any natural number $n$. Participants explore the application of Euclidean Division and modular arithmetic to analyze the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain the use of Euclidean Division, stating that any integer $b$ can be expressed as $b=3k+r$ where $r$ is the remainder when $b$ is divided by $3$.
  • It is noted that the expression $b^2$ can be analyzed based on the possible values of $r$ (0, 1, or 2), leading to different remainders when $b^2$ is divided by $3$.
  • Some participants assert that $b^2$ can only yield remainders of $0$ or $1$ when divided by $3$, thus concluding that $a(n)$ cannot equal $b^2$ if $a(n) \equiv 2 \pmod{3}$.
  • Others express confusion about the necessity of applying Euclidean Division and seek clarification on its relevance to the problem.
  • One participant suggests that using modulo $3$ is a common technique in number theory to simplify the analysis of perfect squares.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical reasoning involving modular arithmetic and the implications of the remainders. However, there is some disagreement regarding the clarity and necessity of applying Euclidean Division in this context, with some participants seeking further explanation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the use of modular arithmetic in number theory, particularly in relation to perfect squares and their properties. Some participants express uncertainty about the terminology and concepts involved, indicating a potential gap in understanding.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and enthusiasts of number theory, particularly those interested in properties of integers and modular arithmetic.

evinda
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
3,741
Reaction score
0
Hey! :rolleyes:
I am looking at the following exercise:
"Prove that $\forall n \in \mathbb{N}$ the number $17 \cdot 3^{2n+1}+41 \cdot n^2 \cdot 3^{n+1}+2$ " is not a square of an integer."

We do it like that:
$a(n)= 17 \cdot 3^{2n+1}+41 \cdot n^2 \cdot 3^{n+1}+2=3 \cdot (17 \cdot 3^{2n}+41 \cdot n^2 \cdot 3^{n})+2$.
We suppose that $a(n)=b^2$,for a $b\in \mathbb{Z}$
Applying the Euclidean Division,$b$ divided by $3$ gives us $b=3k+r, r\in \{0,1,2\}$.
So,$b^2=(3k+r)^{2}$
For $r=0 , b^2=9k^2=3 \cdot 3k^2$,so the remainder is equal to $0$.
For $r=1 , b^2=9k^2+6k+1=3(3k^2+2k)+1 $,so the remainder is equal to $1$.
For $r=2 , b^2=9k^2+12k+4=3(3k^2+4k+1)+1 $,so the remainder is equal to $1$.

So,the remainder of $b^2$ divided by $3$,cannot be $2$ at any case..So,it cannot be $a(n)=b^2$.

But...Why do we apply the Euclidean Division,$b$ divided by $3$ ?? :confused:
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
evinda said:
Hey! :rolleyes:
I am looking at the following exercise:
"Prove that $\forall n \in \mathbb{N}$ the number $17 \cdot 3^{2n+1}+41 \cdot n^2 \cdot 3^{n+1}+2$ " is not a square of an integer."

We do it like that:
$a(n)= 17 \cdot 3^{2n+1}+41 \cdot n^2 \cdot 3^{n+1}+2=3 \cdot (17 \cdot 3^{2n}+41 \cdot n^2 \cdot 3^{n})+2$.
We suppose that $a(n)=b^2$,for a $b\in \mathbb{Z}$
Applying the Euclidean Division,$b$ divided by $3$ gives us $b=3k+r, r\in \{0,1,2\}$.
So,$b^2=(3k+r)^{2}$
For $r=0 , b^2=9k^2=3 \cdot 3k^2$,so the remainder is equal to $0$.
For $r=1 , b^2=9k^2+6k+1=3(3k^2+2k)+1 $,so the remainder is equal to $1$.
For $r=2 , b^2=9k^2+12k+4=3(3k^2+4k+1)+1 $,so the remainder is equal to $1$.

So,the remainder of $b^2$ divided by $3$,cannot be $2$ at any case..So,it cannot be $a(n)=b^2$.

But...Why do we apply the Euclidean Division,$b$ divided by $3$ ?? :confused:

I am not familiar with the expression "Euclidean Division,$b$ divided by $3$".
However, I do see what was intended.
The results are taken modulo 3.

Since
$$a(n) \equiv 2 \pmod 3$$
for any $n$,
and since
$$b^2 \equiv 0,1 \pmod 3$$
for any $b$,
it follows that
$$a(n)\ne b^2$$
for any $n$ and for any $b$.
 
I like Serena said:
I am not familiar with the expression "Euclidean Division,$b$ divided by $3$".
However, I do see what was intended.
The results are taken modulo 3.

Since
$$a(n) \equiv 2 \pmod 3$$
for any $n$,
and since
$$b^2 \equiv 0,1 \pmod 3$$
for any $b$,
it follows that
$$a(n)\ne b^2$$
for any $n$ and for any $b$.

I haven't understood why we take $b=3k+r$ and then find from this $b^2$..
 
evinda said:
I haven't understood why we take $b=3k+r$ and then find from this $b^2$..

Any $b$ can be written as a multiple of 3 plus either 0, 1, or 2.

The reason to do so, is to find the remainder of $b^2$ modulo 3 (the remainder when dividing by 3).
 
Btw, I suspect you are learning this as part of a course in abstract algebra.
But this is really a Number Theory problem, so I am moving it there.
 
evinda said:
I haven't understood why we take $b=3k+r$ and then find from this $b^2$..

The reason why is that it is the smallest prime that offers us some insight into this problem (using oddness/evenness isn't particularly helpful, in this case, all that is tells us is:

Odd squared is odd
Even squared is even).

Now we only have 3 possible remainders upon division by 3: 0, 1 or 2. This becomes the 3 cases:

$b = 3k \implies b^2 = 9k^2$
$b = 3k+1 \implies b^2 = (3k+1)^2 = 3(3k^2 + 2k) + 1 = 3m + 1$

(for the integer $m = 3k^2 + 2k$).

$b = 3k+2 \implies b^2 = (3k+2)^2 = 3(3k^2 + 4k + 1) + 1 = 3m' + 1$.

The whole purpose is to use the fact that only 3 remainders are possible to reduce the INFINITE number of cases (every natural number) to just THREE cases.

One can also see that if the remainder is 2, that is $b = 3k+2$, letting $k' = k + 1$, we see that $b$ is of the form $3(k + 1 - 1) + 2 = 3(k + 1) - 3 + 2 = 3k' - 1$, which makes it clear why division by "3" works so well, the remainder set is equivalent to:

$\{-1,0,1\}$

One can also express this as:

$ -1 \equiv 2\text{ (mod }3)$

This is a "common trick" in problems about natural numbers: to consider the same problem as a problem about integers, and then consider the equivalence classes modulo $p$ (where $p$ is prime). When $p = 2$, this is called "the arithmetic of parity" or "reasoning by odd and even cases".

Convince yourself (experiment a little, half the fun in math comes from "fooling around") that (modulo $p$ for an odd prime) we get only "half as many squares" as there are (non-zero) remainders. Such numbers are called "quadratic residues", and form an important part of number theory. For example, the quadratic residues modulo 5 are:

1, and 4.

So, if reducing mod 5, we find a certain expression is 2 or 3, we could likewise argue it is not a perfect square.
 
Deveno said:
The reason why is that it is the smallest prime that offers us some insight into this problem (using oddness/evenness isn't particularly helpful, in this case, all that is tells us is:

Odd squared is odd
Even squared is even).

Now we only have 3 possible remainders upon division by 3: 0, 1 or 2. This becomes the 3 cases:

$b = 3k \implies b^2 = 9k^2$
$b = 3k+1 \implies b^2 = (3k+1)^2 = 3(3k^2 + 2k) + 1 = 3m + 1$

(for the integer $m = 3k^2 + 2k$).

$b = 3k+2 \implies b^2 = (3k+2)^2 = 3(3k^2 + 4k + 1) + 1 = 3m' + 1$.

The whole purpose is to use the fact that only 3 remainders are possible to reduce the INFINITE number of cases (every natural number) to just THREE cases.

One can also see that if the remainder is 2, that is $b = 3k+2$, letting $k' = k + 1$, we see that $b$ is of the form $3(k + 1 - 1) + 2 = 3(k + 1) - 3 + 2 = 3k' - 1$, which makes it clear why division by "3" works so well, the remainder set is equivalent to:

$\{-1,0,1\}$

One can also express this as:

$ -1 \equiv 2\text{ (mod }3)$

This is a "common trick" in problems about natural numbers: to consider the same problem as a problem about integers, and then consider the equivalence classes modulo $p$ (where $p$ is prime). When $p = 2$, this is called "the arithmetic of parity" or "reasoning by odd and even cases".

Convince yourself (experiment a little, half the fun in math comes from "fooling around") that (modulo $p$ for an odd prime) we get only "half as many squares" as there are (non-zero) remainders. Such numbers are called "quadratic residues", and form an important part of number theory. For example, the quadratic residues modulo 5 are:

1, and 4.

So, if reducing mod 5, we find a certain expression is 2 or 3, we could likewise argue it is not a perfect square.

Nice,thank you! :)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K