Why do we keep ppl who should be in wards teaching and managin at our schools ?

[DanP]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4547418/six-year-old-forced-into-psych-ward-by-school

It's not the kid who should be committed. Is the so called adults, the do gooders, which are an infestation to our society.

 

[Jack21222]

The kid said he wanted to kill himself. What did you want them to do?

(also, it's worth pointing out to anybody who clicks the link that the kid is 8, not 6 like it says on the page)

 

[DanP]

The kid said he wanted to kill himself. What did you want them to do?

Call the freaking parents. YOu know, the men and women who built USA since the first wave of colonists. The men and women who ,raised their kids for generations, and they did just well. Made USA what it is today. They didn't need do gooders to tell them their children are insane, violent or otherwise damaged. They managed.

Today you get policeman tasering children, handcuffing innocents at school, fat bureaucrats "kidnapping" children under legal protection, throwing them in psychiatric wards and most likely inflicting severe psychological stress on them.

Get rid of the do gooders. They are the worst our society have to offer. They are more dangerous than psychopaths.

 

[cobalt124]

Without seeing the details, my gut response is that it is an "*** covering" operation by a school/staff with incompetent staff. If it's do-gooders, that's even worse. Again, not knowing about the psychiatric institution in question, it seems a gross over reaction to a picture. Decisions like these must be made on an overall assessment of many criteria, not a picture. They may have caused the child a lot of damage. And hopefully at the least they have procedures in place to handle a situation like this and they were adhered to, even if so, their procedures may need an overhaul. Can't find a (known to myself) reputable source with details yet.

 

[DanP]

This is a blog entry by someone who says he is the uncle of the children in question.

http://projectstarmessiah.blogspot.com/2011/02/just-because-youre-paranoid-doesnt-mean.html

It tells that parents where sent a 10k bill for having their child kidnapped. Really amusing.

 

[cobalt124]

The kid said he wanted to kill himself. What did you want them to do?

That is definitely not always the right default thing to do when it is being said. If it is attempted, that may be a different matter. One isolated incident (drawing of a picture) would not justify it. It is a poor school that would "responsibility shift" by doing this. Again need more information before a solid opinion can be made.

 

[cobalt124]

Call the freaking parents.

Yes, there must be a duty to contact the parents. But parents are not always part of the solution. Then the school has then to be in a position to put the interests of the child first. Would that have been possible here?

Get rid of the do gooders. They are the worst our society have to offer. They are more dangerous than psychopaths.

Agreeing with that argument, I would say it's worse than that. The whole set up that hires do-gooders and accepts that knid of culture would need overhauling. Root and branch.

 

[cobalt124]

I'm waiting for a written article that isn't FoxNews or a blog.

Wow, I didn't know *** was a forbidden word, and that PF had an "auto-censor".

 

[DanP]

Yes, there must be a duty to contact the parents. But parents are not always part of the solution. Then the school has then to be in a position to put the interests of the child first.

Sure. And time and again, the solution is kidnapping the children from their parents and exposing them to what I consider to be form of torture. Just think at it. You are a 8 yo child with anxiety and big bad men come and take you by force, they do what it seems very bad things to your mother, because she is screaming and she is desperate and she gets pushed and shoved away. You get to see this. You don't know what happens. You feel the fear of your mother, her desperation. Then they lock you up somewhere, you don't know exactly where. You are afraid, you don't know what happened to your mother, what they did yo her, you don't know if you will see her again. You are alone among what have to look to you like monsters from the children stories which suddenly had come to life.

It must be really "funny" to be a child and have to go through this.

 

[cobalt124]

Just think at it.

I don't even have to. Not giving details, but I have direct experience of having this situation hanging over my head, which is colouring my initial, uniformed previous posts. And reading about it makes me angry.

It must be really "funny" to be a child and have to go through this.

I'm clearly missing something here as I haven't read the links. You also state "really amusing" previously.

 

[DanP]

I'm clearly missing something here as I haven't read the links. You also state "really amusing" previously.

I meant the total opposite. As in , terrific and grotesque. Perhaps not the wisest choice of words when you can't convey meaning with the expression of your face.

 

[Amp1]

Listening to the MOTHER speak to the Hon. J. Pierro, I was surprised that even after she (the mother) told the school officials, the EMT people, and some others in a position to halt this, that they ignored her. She told them her son is in therapy one, she had called the therapist and the therapist wanted to talk to them two, and the therapist said don't send the child to a mental ward three.

 

[cobalt124]

I meant the total opposite. As in , terrific and grotesque. Perhaps not the wisest choice of words when you can't convey meaning with the expression of your face.

Yes, I thought so. But I also suspected that one of these do-gooders had tried to laugh it off as inconsequential. First hand experience again.

 

[nismaratwork]

Sure. And time and again, the solution is kidnapping the children from their parents and exposing them to what I consider to be form of torture. Just think at it. You are a 8 yo child with anxiety and big bad men come and take you by force, they do what it seems very bad things to your mother, because she is screaming and she is desperate and she gets pushed and shoved away. You get to see this. You don't know what happens. You feel the fear of your mother, her desperation. Then they lock you up somewhere, you don't know exactly where. You are afraid, you don't know what happened to your mother, what they did yo her, you don't know if you will see her again. You are alone among what have to look to you like monsters from the children stories which suddenly had come to life.

It must be really "funny" to be a child and have to go through this.

That could also describe the experience of a child who's a victim of criminal abuse and neglect.

 

[nismaratwork]

Listening to the MOTHER speak to the Hon. J. Pierro, I was surprised that even after she (the mother) told the school officials, the EMT people, and some others in a position to halt this, that they ignored her. She told them her son is in therapy one, she had called the therapist and the therapist wanted to talk to them two, and the therapist said don't send the child to a mental ward three.

This is where things went from butt-covering, to what should be criminal in my view.

edit: In the legal system, it won't happen, but I'd love to know the absolutely honest reason this was done... I think we need to understand it, so we can prevent it.

 

[EntropicLove]

Foxnews and many local media enterprises seem to function as propagators of fear based ideologies that indoctrinate the mainstream. The real question is why is a psyche ward stigmatized and should the untrained eye get power of action over others--to me this is only implications of a dysfunctional embedded power structure that lies within this social system.

 

[cobalt124]

Don't know who KTLA are, this is the best I could find of a non-Fox/blog article.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-san-pedro-psych-ward-child,0,3337039.story

"said the picture was something from a video game her son plays"

If true the authorities have overreacted.

"When any student indicates a desire to take his or her own life, the LAUSD is required to follow strict protocols to ensure the safety of the student ... The safety of LAUSD students is paramount. We did the right thing here."

Again if true the protocols need changing, away from a butt-covering policy to a policy that does, in their own words, "ensure the safety of the student".

 

[DanP]

Don't know who KTLA are, this is the best I could find of a non-Fox/blog article.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-san-pedro-psych-ward-child,0,3337039.story

"said the picture was something from a video game her son plays"

If true the authorities have overreacted.

"When any student indicates a desire to take his or her own life, the LAUSD is required to follow strict protocols to ensure the safety of the student ... The safety of LAUSD students is paramount. We did the right thing here."

Again if true the protocols need changing, away from a butt-covering policy to a policy that does, in their own words, "ensure the safety of the student".

Dorman is right. The behavior of those officials can traumatize a child.

What can be perceived by the child like abduction,forced confine, and inflicting pain on his parents is something worthy of the Praetorian guard in the aftermath of a violent power change, not of what are allegedly trained professionals in health.

 

[WhoWee]

Listening to the MOTHER speak to the Hon. J. Pierro, I was surprised that even after she (the mother) told the school officials, the EMT people, and some others in a position to halt this, that they ignored her. She told them her son is in therapy one, she had called the therapist and the therapist wanted to talk to them two, and the therapist said don't send the child to a mental ward three.

This is the area that interests me the most. If the boy was already in therapy - not sure if the therapist is a doctor (?) - it seems the school could have acted a little less dramatically and deferred to the therapist?

Speaking as a parent - I don't like a "Big Brother" approach when it comes to dealing with children. IMO - this was an over-reaction.

By contrast, I'm familiar with a recent event involving a "cutter", that is a child who engages in Self-Injury or Self-Mutilation, that did not result in such high drama. A 10 year old girl cut her arm to avoid a test and was sent to the nurse. The nurse stopped the bleeding and the parents were summoned. This was not the first incident and the parents took the girl to her doctor. The girl was not permitted to re-attend school until the doctor approved. The parents continue to provide doctors care for the girl and she is re-enrolled full time. It took about a few months for harrassment from other students to dwindle. The school respected the parents wishes to take the girl to her doctor, there was no ambulance (as the nurse treated the wound), and there was no forced hospitalization by the school. In retrospect, the school should have summoned the parents of the other children in the school (I'm a member of that group) to explain the situation and request that we each talk to our children - to URGE them not to continue to provoke this child.

I can only imagine the abusive treatment this boy is receiving from classmates at this point.

 

[tjfloyd]

From a sociological perspective, it stems from societies "need" to institutionalize deviant behavior. A child draws some "odd" pictures and says he wants to kill himself... societies response is: This child is exhibiting deviant behavior, therefore he must be mentally ill and he must be controlled by institutionalization. We went over this very subject today in my Sociology of Mental Illness course. I, myself, believe that they were doing what they believed was best for the child, but just because they believed they were right doesn't make them right. I think that they should have stepped back and let the child's own therapist take control of the situation. The child would have had a positive reaction to somebody that he was familiar with and trusted, but institutionalizing him at such a young age can be traumatizing to him. It's probably really scary for a child to be rushed away in an ambulance and taken to a strange hospital for three days. Schools and school officials over respond to such things. I remember an incident when I was in 1st grade.. a girl said she was going to tell on me for talking when the teacher was out of the classroom and to make her feel sorry for me, I said I was going to kill myself... she told the teacher what I said and the teacher took me outside and paddled me! Now, if I was a truly suicidal child, that would have been the last thing to do.. my brother used to draw weird things in class like demons with knives and stuff he thought was cool, but the teacher saw it one day, and they took him to a counselor who said that he was suicidal and the drawings were representative of a sociopathic disorder.. applying sociological theory to that, he was labelled as mentally ill, and next thing you know, everything that he did was a result of his "mental illness".. he was later kicked out of school for having pot (which we later discovered was nothing more than dried grass), and now he has a GED and is attending college before any of his old classmates and doing very well. I believe that stuff like this should be looked into more, and better solutions be made to assess such problems.. people should think before they act.

 

[nismaratwork]

Two things you NEVER take as anything less than serious:

1.) One will harm one's self
2.) One will harm another.

It's moral, and legal; see Tarasoff.

 

[WhoWee]

Two things you NEVER take as anything less than serious:

1.) One will harm one's self
2.) One will harm another.

It's moral, and legal; see Tarasoff.

I think we all agree with these points. However, this may be a situation where the response exceeded the situation.

 

[nismaratwork]

I think we all agree with these points. However, this may be a situation where the response exceeded the situation.

Oh, the case of the OP, you bet, besides there was a drawing to be interpreted and no statement of harm. I've already made clear what I think of that... and the kid is not the one who needs an evaluation.

I meant in regards to what tjfloyd said... young or not, you can't ignore when someone says they'll hurt themselves.

Usually they won't, but ignore enough people long enough and you'll have a heavy heart.