Why Do We Use |x-2| < 1 and δ = min{1,ε/5} in Epsilon-Delta Proofs?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of the inequalities |x-2| < 1 and δ = min{1,ε/5} in the context of epsilon-delta proofs, specifically related to limits in calculus. Participants are exploring the reasoning behind these choices in the proof process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the necessity of the condition |x-2| < 1 and the choice of δ = min{1,ε/5} in the proof.
  • One participant notes that if δ < 1, then |x+4| is less than 5, which is relevant for bounding the product |x+4||x-2|.
  • Another participant suggests that making one factor less than 5 and the other less than ε/5 is a strategy to ensure the product is less than ε.
  • There is a mention of a different limit problem involving |x-1| < δ and the challenge of factoring the expression |x^3 + 2x - 3|.
  • Participants discuss the approach to finish the proof and the importance of choosing appropriate bounds for the factors involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express uncertainty about the specific conditions used in the epsilon-delta proofs, indicating that multiple viewpoints and interpretations exist regarding the reasoning behind these choices.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the behavior of the functions involved and the specific bounds chosen for δ are not fully explored, leaving room for further clarification.

ƒ(x)
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For part A, (described here: http://www.cramster.com/solution/solution/1157440) I don't understand why they say |x-2| < 1 and why \delta = min{1,ε/5}

In case you can't view the page:

lim x2+2x-5 = 3, x \rightarrow 2
Let ε > 0 and L = 3.

|x2 + 2x -5 -3| < ε
|x2 + 2x - 8| < ε
|x+4||x-2| < ε

If |x-2| < 1, x \rightarrow (1,3) \rightarrow x+2 \in (3,5)
|x-2| < 1 \rightarrow |x+2| < 5
|x-2| < 1 \rightarrow |x2 +2x - 8| = |x-4||x+2| < 5|x-4|

For ε > 0, 5|x-4| < ε \rightarrow |x-4| < \frac{ε}{5}

If \delta = min{1,\frac{ε}{5}}
|x-2| < \delta \rightarrow |x2 + 2x - 8| < 5|x-4| < ε
 
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hi ƒ(x)! :smile:
ƒ(x) said:
I don't understand why they say |x-2| < 1 and why \delta = min{1,ε/5}

|x+4||x-2| < ε

because if δ < 1, then |x+4| < 5

and if δ < ε/5, then |x-2| < ε/5 (obviously!)

so |x+4||x-2| < 5*ε/5 = ε :wink:

(though i don't see why they say |x-2| < 1 either :redface:)
 
tiny-tim said:
hi ƒ(x)! :smile:


because if δ < 1, then |x+4| < 5

and if δ < ε/5, then |x-2| < ε/5 (obviously!)

so |x+4||x-2| < 5*ε/5 = ε :wink:

(though i don't see why they say |x-2| < 1 either :redface:)


Can you explain yourself a little further? I tend to be rather slow about this kind of thing.
 
ƒ(x) said:
Can you explain yourself a little further? I tend to be rather slow about this kind of thing.

you want the product to be < ε

one easy way to do this (there are others) is to make one of them < 1 and the other < ε

but that won't work in this case, since |4+x| isn't going to be < 1

however, it will be < 5,

so we make one of them < 5 and the other < ε/5 :smile:
 
tiny-tim said:
you want the product to be < ε

one easy way to do this (there are others) is to make one of them < 1 and the other < ε

but that won't work in this case, since |4+x| isn't going to be < 1

however, it will be < 5,

so we make one of them < 5 and the other < ε/5 :smile:

So, for a different problem, part (c) on the link, I have:

lim x^3 + 2x + 1 = 4, x --> 1

Let ε > and L = 4

|x-1| < δ, |x^3 +2x - 3| < ε

But this one doesn't factor...[EDIT] wait, yes it does (I peeked at the solution, how do I factor this by myself?).

|x-1||x^2 + x + 3| < ε
 
hi ƒ(x)! :smile:

(just got up :zzz: …)

ok, so |x-1| < δ,

and you can obviously choose x near 4 so that |x2 + x + 3| < 33 …

so how would you finish the proof? :smile:
ƒ(x) said:
But this one doesn't factor...[EDIT] wait, yes it does (I peeked at the solution, how do I factor this by myself?).

you just have to guess …

in an exam, they won't give you anything difficult, so start with ±1, and work your way upwards! :wink:
 

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