Why Does Entropy Behave Differently in Water and Steam with Temperature Changes?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of entropy in water and steam as temperature changes, specifically addressing why the entropy of water increases with temperature while the original poster suggests that the entropy of steam decreases. The subject area is thermodynamics, focusing on entropy and phase transitions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between temperature and entropy in different phases of water, questioning the premise that steam's entropy decreases with temperature. Some participants reference steam tables to support their points, while others clarify their understanding of the derivatives of entropy with respect to temperature under varying conditions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and questioning assumptions about the behavior of entropy in steam and water. There is no explicit consensus, but some guidance is offered regarding the conditions under which the original question is valid.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of pressure in the context of entropy changes and the need to clarify the conditions under which the behavior of steam is being analyzed.

noblegas
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Homework Statement



Why does the entropy of the water increase with increasing temperature, while the entropy of steam decreases, while the entropy of steam decreases with increasing temperature?

The Attempt at a Solution



I think the reason why the entropy increases with water is because it takes an extra amount of heat to convert water to steam when it reaches a temperature of 100 degrees celsius more than increasng the temperature of water while since when increasing the temperature of steam , its not gong through a phase transition and so as the temperature goes up, the entropy goes down since S=Q/T
 
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I'm stuck at the premise of the question. Who says that the entropy of steam decreases with increasing temperature? That would mean that the specific heat of steam is negative, which is untrue.
 
If you look at the steam tables, you will find that the entropy of steam in the saturated vapor (steam) condition does decrease as the temperature and pressure both increase.

At a pressure of 0.6113 kPa and a saturation temperature of 0.01 C the entropy is 9.1562 kJ/kg-K.

At the critical point of 22.09 MPa and a saturation temperature of 374.14 C the entropy is 4.4298 kJ/kg-k

Now, a saturated liquid (water) has an increase in entropy as the temperature and pressure both increase.

So the original question is justified as long as one indicates that the pressure is increasing also.

Thanks
Matt
 
Last edited:
Ah, got it. I was thinking (\partial S/\partial T)_P or (\partial S/\partial T)_V. This would be more like (\partial S/\partial T)_{\mu=\mu(H_2O(l),\,T,\,P)}
 

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