Why Does Magnetic Force Behave Differently with Charges Compared to Steel?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of magnetic forces in relation to charged particles and ferromagnetic materials like steel. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the differences in how magnetic fields interact with moving charges compared to steel or magnets, particularly focusing on the perpendicular nature of the magnetic force on charges.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster questions why magnetic forces behave differently for charges versus steel, specifically regarding the direction of forces and the conditions under which they act. Some participants explore the concept of magnetic dipoles and the forces acting on charges in circular motion within a magnetic field.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants raising questions and exploring different interpretations of magnetic forces. Some guidance has been offered regarding the behavior of current loops in magnetic fields, but no consensus has been reached on the original poster's query.

Contextual Notes

Participants are considering the implications of magnetic field lines and the nature of forces acting on different objects, including assumptions about the behavior of charges and magnetic materials. There is a mention of the alignment of iron filings and the twisting of current loops, which may indicate a need for further exploration of these concepts.

allok
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hiya

I assume the field lines represent the strength of magnetic field and show the direction of magnetic force. So if we put iron filings on paper with magnet near by, then fillings will arrange themselfs in such way to show the direction of the magnetic forces on these iron fillings.


And here is the confusing part: When learning about moving charged particles inside MF, suddenly magnetic force on this charge is perpendicular to magnetic field lines ( and these lines BTW represent magnetic force ).

Why if an object such as another magnet or steel enters MF, magnetic forces represented by magnetic field lines act on this object, but when charge enters MF, the magnetic force represented by magnetic field lines doesn't act on charge, but instead new force is created that acts on this charge and direction of this force is different than direction of magnetic forces represented by magnetic field lines ( this new force is only created if charge is not moving parallel with magnetic field lines )? In short, why does magnetic field behave differently depending on whether a charge or steel enters inside it?


thank you
 
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The nearest thing to a magnet that can be made with a single charge is a magentic dipole, which is a charge orbiting with a circular motion. Consider a charge moving in a magentic field where some force other than the one from the magnetic field is making the charge run around in circles, or it could be a group of charges running around on the same circle. If you like, let those charges be inside a little loop of wire. What force does the magnetic field apply to the charge(s) in different places along its circular path? How does this depend on the orientation of the circle relative to the magnetic field?
 
Uh, I don't know
 
allok said:
Uh, I don't know
What you see when you look at the iron filings near a magnet is that the filings align themselves with the magnetic field lines. They are not forced in the direction of the field lines, they are twisted into alignment. The same thing happens with a loop of current in a magnetic field. One side of the loop is forced in one direction, and the other side is forced into the other direction. The loop is twisted into alignment so that the plane of the loop is perpendicular to the magnetic field. There is no inconsistency between what happens to a loop of current and what happens to a single charge moving in a magnetic field.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magmom.html
 

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