Why does Methane lack 90 degree angles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the molecular structure of methane (CH4), specifically addressing the angles between hydrogen atoms and the implications of orbital hybridization in determining these angles. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings of methane's tetrahedral geometry, including the role of sp3 hybridization and the spatial arrangement of atomic orbitals.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the hydrogen atoms in methane are not positioned at 90-degree angles, given the electron configurations of carbon and hydrogen.
  • Another participant asserts that methane has a tetrahedral structure due to symmetry and the nature of sp3 hybrid bonds, which distribute evenly in three-dimensional space.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the relationship between hybrid bonds and the angles formed, wondering if the 2p orbitals influence the positioning of hydrogen atoms differently.
  • There is a correction regarding the nature of the bonds, with a participant stating that all four bonds in methane are sp3 hybridized, not just three.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between orbital theory and the spatial arrangement of atoms in methane, with some agreeing on the tetrahedral structure while others question the implications of hybridization on bond angles. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific reasons for the observed bond angles.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of orbital hybridization and its effects on molecular geometry, indicating that assumptions about bond angles may depend on interpretations of hybridization theory and electron distribution.

Physt
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With the Methane structure of CH4 and an electron structure of Carbon as 1s22s22px12py1 and the electron structure of Hydrogen as 1s1 with P-orbitals separated by 90 degrees from each other and S-orbitals uniform spheres why aren't two of the Hydrogen atoms in a Methane molecule at 90 degree angles (or at some balance between there and the homogenous 109.5 degree angles shown between all Hydrogen atoms)?
 
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Methane has a tetrahedral structure due to its symmetry. The carbon hydrogen bonds are SP3 hybrid bonds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_hybridisation#sp3_hybrids
There are no unbonded electron pairs on the carbon, so the bonds should distribute themselves more or less equally spaced, which gives a tetrahedron.
 
Khashishi said:
Methane has a tetrahedral structure due to its symmetry. The carbon hydrogen bonds are SP3 hybrid bonds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_hybridisation#sp3_hybrids
There are no unbonded electron pairs on the carbon, so the bonds should distribute themselves more or less equally spaced, which gives a tetrahedron.
Right, but if three of the bonds are hybrid bonds why are they not spaced 90 degrees from each other (or more towards 90 degrees than the even 109.5 degrees all around) with the remaining 2s bond spaced evenly away from each of them? Are the 2p shells just a rough "the bond must be within this region" and if so are the Hydrogen atoms spaced at different distances away from the Carbon atom? What I'm trying to understand is why there appears to be no relation between the orbital theory (beyond the total number of possible bonds irrespective of the angles of the bonds) and the location of atoms with regard to each other.
 
Physt said:
Right, but if three of the bonds are hybrid bonds

All four are. sp3 means mixing four bonds (one s and three p) into another four.
 
Borek said:
All four are. sp3 means mixing four bonds (one s and three p) into another four.
Thanks. Likewise for your post in the other thread.
 

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