Why does the horizon area of a black hole never decrease?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the reasons behind the principle that the horizon area of a black hole never decreases, as articulated in Hawking's Area Theorem. Participants explore the implications of this theorem within the context of black hole thermodynamics, including classical and quantum considerations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference Hawking's Area Theorem, stating that the change in horizon area over time is non-negative (dA/dt ≥ 0).
  • Others mention the Second Law of Black Hole Thermodynamics, which asserts that the area of the event horizon does not decrease during classical processes, and that it can only increase under certain conditions, such as the addition of mass or reduction of spin or charge.
  • A participant questions the basis for the theorem and asks what would occur if the area were to decrease, suggesting a potential violation of conventional understanding.
  • Another participant explains that Hawking's proof relies on a geometric argument involving outgoing light rays that cannot escape from the black hole, implying that the number of such rays—and thus the horizon area—cannot decrease.
  • There is a clarification regarding the conditions under which the black hole's event horizon area can remain stable or increase, including the possibility of increasing spin or charge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the non-decreasing nature of the black hole horizon area in classical contexts, but there are unresolved questions regarding the implications of a hypothetical decrease in area and the role of quantum effects.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about classical versus quantum effects are present, and the discussion does not resolve the implications of potential violations of the established principles of black hole thermodynamics.

M. next
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Hawking said that the horizon area of a black hole never decreases and illustrated that in his Hawking Are Theorem:

dA/dt ≥ 0

Does anyone know why is it like that. Why doesn't the area decrease?
 
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M. next said:
Hawking said that the horizon area of a black hole never decreases and illustrated that in his Hawking Are Theorem:

dA/dt ≥ 0

Does anyone know why is it like that. Why doesn't the area decrease?


According to the Second Law of BH Thermodynamics, in any classical process, the area of the event horizon does not decrease

dA\geq 0

nor does the black hole's entropy, S_{bh} (the BH's event horizon area can remain stable in classical mechanics but will increase 1) if mass is added or 2) if spin or charge are reduced). The second law of black hole mechanics can, however, be violated if the quantum effect is taken into account, namely that the area of the event horizon can be reduced via Hawking radiation.


BH thermodynamics-

http://www.fysik.su.se/~narit/bh.pdf pages 9-13

http://edoc.ub.uni-muenchen.de/6024/1/Deeg_Dorothea.pdf pages 11-13
 
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Thank you a lot for your reply. I now know why does it increase. You are saying if mass is added or if spin or charge is reduced. How was it known? If this is difficult to answer, then I ask why doesn't it decrease? What will happen if you took the other option IF THE AREA DECREASED what will happen? Will this violate something conventional or what do you say?
 
M. next said:
What will happen if you took the other option IF THE AREA DECREASED what will happen? Will this violate something conventional or what do you say?

Hawking proved the area theorem for a classical black hole (i.e., one in which no quantum effects like Hawking radiation are operating) by a geometric argument which requires considerable groundwork to understand. But the gist of it is that the horizon is made up of outgoing light rays that just barely fail to escape to infinity, and the area of the horizon, roughly speaking, counts the "number" of such light rays that make up the horizon, assuming that they don't converge. Since nothing can escape from a classical black hole, the number of the light rays can't decrease; and Hawking's geometric argument showed that they can't converge. Putting those two things together establishes that the horizon area can't decrease.
 
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Thank you very much for putting this in a simple way!
 
stevebd1 said:
the BH's event horizon area can remain stable in classical mechanics but will increase 1) if mass is added or 2) if spin or charge are reduced)

Or if spin or charge are *increased*. (The mass of a classical BH can't be reduced, so we don't have to consider that option.)
 

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