Why does this not diverge when x = inf?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of the expression \(\frac{x^3}{3} \ln(1-e^{-\beta x})\) as \(x\) approaches infinity, particularly in the context of statistical mechanics. Participants explore whether this expression diverges or converges and the implications of evaluating it over the range from 0 to infinity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the expression does not diverge as \(x\) approaches infinity, suggesting it may be an estimation.
  • One participant clarifies that as \(x\) approaches infinity, \(e^{-\beta x}\) becomes small, allowing the use of a Taylor expansion for the logarithm to analyze the behavior of the expression.
  • Another participant points out that the limit can be expressed in an indeterminate form \(\infty \cdot 0\) and suggests using L'Hôpital's Rule to evaluate it, reformulating it to a \(\frac{0}{0}\) form.
  • There is a mention of the assumption that \(\beta > 0\) and a clarification that the evaluation should be treated as a limit rather than directly substituting \(x = \infty\).
  • A later reply indicates that the equation results from an integral evaluated from 0 to infinity, noting that both endpoints yield a value of zero.
  • One participant emphasizes that one cannot simply "set \(x = \infty\)" when working with integrals, reinforcing the need for limits in such evaluations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the evaluation of the expression at infinity, with some advocating for the use of limits and others discussing the implications of the indeterminate form. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of the divergence or convergence of the expression.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the evaluation of expressions at infinity and the necessity of using limits, as well as the dependence on the assumption that \(\beta > 0\). There is also an acknowledgment of the indeterminate forms involved in the analysis.

denjay
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Here is the equation I came across during a proof in my Statistical Mechanics textbook.

[itex]\frac{x^3}{3} ln(1-e^{-βx}) = 0[/itex]

where [itex]β = \frac{1}{k_{B}T}[/itex] and [itex]x[/itex] is evaluated from [itex]\infty[/itex] to [itex]0[/itex].

Why does this not diverge? Is it an estimation?
 
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denjay said:
Here is the equation I came across during a proof in my Statistical Mechanics textbook.

[itex]\frac{x^3}{3} ln(1-e^{-βx}) = 0[/itex]

where [itex]β = \frac{1}{k_{B}T}[/itex] and [itex]x[/itex] is evaluated from [itex]\infty[/itex] to [itex]0[/itex].

Why does this not diverge? Is it an estimation?

What do you mean by "[itex]x[/itex] is evaluated from [itex]\infty[/itex] to [itex]0[/itex]"? Just that that is the range of x, i.e., ##x \in [0,\infty)##?

At any rate, as you take ##x\rightarrow \infty##, ##e^{-\beta x}## becomes small. You can then use the taylor expansion of the logarithm, ##\ln(1+t) \approx t## as ##t\rightarrow 0## to find the leading order behavior as x gets large, and see that the expression will go to zero.

You could also use L'Hopital's rule to demonstrate this, as the limit is of the indeterminate form ##\infty \cdot 0##. Both approaches will give you the limit, but the first approach also tells you how the function behaves asymptotically as x gets large.
 
denjay said:
Here is the equation I came across during a proof in my Statistical Mechanics textbook.

[itex]\frac{x^3}{3} ln(1-e^{-βx}) = 0[/itex]
Was this in the form of a limit? That context would make sense with what you said below.

$$ \lim_{x \to \infty} \frac{x^3}{3} ln(1-e^{-βx}) $$

The above is the indeterminate form [∞ * 0]. Being indeterminate, you can't tell how it will turn out.

The thing to do is to write it in a form so that L'Hopital's Rule can be used; namely,
$$ \frac{1}{3}\lim_{x \to \infty} \frac{ln(1-e^{-βx}) }{x^{-3}} $$

Now, it's the indeterminate form [0/0], so L'Hopital's can be used. The numerator is approaching 0, as is the denominator.

Applying L'H, you arrive pretty quickly at a limit value of 0.
denjay said:
where [itex]β = \frac{1}{k_{B}T}[/itex] and [itex]x[/itex] is evaluated from [itex]\infty[/itex] to [itex]0[/itex].
I'm assuming that β > 0. Also, we don't normally evaluate something from ∞
to 0. We can take the limit, though, as x → ∞.
denjay said:
Why does this not diverge? Is it an estimation?
 
Sorry I probably should have provided more information. That equation is the result of an integral being from 0 to ∞. So, with that equation, setting x = 0 makes the equation zero along with setting x = ∞.

And the only restriction on β is that β > 0.
 
If you are working with integrals, you should know by now that you can not "set [itex]x= \infty[/itex]". You have to use limits.
 

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