Why does time dilation affect all clocks equally?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of time dilation in special relativity, specifically questioning why time dilation appears to affect all types of clocks equally, including light clocks and other types of clocks like bouncing balls. Participants explore the implications of this equality and whether different clocks would experience different amounts of time dilation based on their mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why time dilation applies equally to all clocks, suggesting that if different types of clocks are used, the dilation should vary based on their mechanics and the relative velocities involved.
  • Another participant argues that if time dilation affected different clocks differently, it would allow for the determination of "absolute" speed, contradicting the principles of special relativity.
  • It is proposed that light clocks are used for analysis because they simplify the calculations, but the same time dilation factor should apply to other types of clocks if analyzed correctly.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the observer-dependent nature of clock rates, questioning whether Alex would see John's clocks ticking at the same rate and how this relates to different types of clocks.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to use relativistic velocity addition rather than classical velocity addition to resolve the apparent discrepancies in clock rates.
  • Concerns are raised about the logical consistency of the time dilation effects when considering different clock types, particularly regarding the speed of a bouncing ball compared to a light beam.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether time dilation affects different types of clocks differently, with some asserting that it does not while others remain unconvinced. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of using various clock types and the observer-dependent nature of time dilation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of analyzing non-light clocks and the potential for misunderstanding when applying classical versus relativistic principles. The discussion includes assumptions about the constancy of clock speeds and the implications of different clock mechanics on time dilation.

  • #31
"How exactly would John use his ship as a clock? Withthe light and ball, he measures how long it takes for them to travel a fixed distance in the Y direction relative to him, but the ship has no relative motion with respect to John. "

I meant that Alex could use John's ship as a clock. My main question, though, relates to what we've been discussing about only needing to use the vertical speed to calculate time dilation when the clock is perpendicular to the ship. Many sites on the net that introduce special relativity use the light clock example and explain time dilation by saying that the stationary frame sees the moving frame's time go slower because the stationary frame sees the beam of light going up a longer path. Based on what we've been discussing, the longer path has nothing to do with why the stationary observer sees the clock on the ship tick slower. The lengrh of the path (which is the height of the light clock) is the same for both, it's just that for the stationary observer the light goes up that path slower. True, the stationary observer also views the beam going in a sideways direction, but we only use the length of its vertical path to calculate time dilation. Am I correct about this?

PAllen thank you for that resource. I have not heard of aberration before and will read about it.
 
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  • #32
NoahsArk said:
The lengrh of the path (which is the height of the light clock) is the same for both,
No, the length of the path taken by the light beam is not the same. In one frame, the light travels just vertically; in the other frame, the light travels diagonally over a longer path.

NoahsArk said:
but we only use the length of its vertical path to calculate time dilation.
That's just a calculational convenience. Note that when you do that you only use the vertical component of the velocity.
 
  • #33
But is it true that the longer path in these examples is not a factor in the time dilation?
 
  • #34
NoahsArk said:
But is it true that the longer path in these examples is not a factor in the time dilation?
No, that's not true. That longer path allows you to immediately deduce time dilation (for a light clock).
 
  • #35
Doc Al said:
No, that's not true. That longer path allows you to immediately deduce time dilation (for a light clock).
The longer the voyage is that the ship goes on, the longer the diagonal path will be. But the length of the journey is not affecting gamma, only the speed of the ship is?
 
  • #36
NoahsArk said:
The longer the voyage is that the ship goes on, the longer the diagonal path will be. But the length of the journey is not affecting gamma, only the speed of the ship is?
The speed of the ship determines both gamma and the length of the diagonal path. (They are all connected.)
 

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