Why is it easier to balance on a moving bike than a stationary one?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of why balancing on a moving bicycle is easier than on a stationary one. Participants explore various theories and concepts related to physics, including angular momentum, gyroscopic effects, aerodynamics, and the role of steering geometry in stability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the angular momentum of the wheels acts like a gyroscope, helping to resist tipping.
  • Others argue that the ability to steer the front wheel while moving creates a force that counteracts tipping, with the effect increasing at higher speeds.
  • A few participants suggest that the aerodynamics around the wheels might contribute to stability, although this idea is met with skepticism.
  • One participant mentions that the gyroscopic effect may be negligible when considering the lightness of the wheels and their speed.
  • Another perspective is that the dynamics of balance involve more complex interactions than just gyroscopic effects, including steering geometry and the concept of "trail".
  • Some participants reference research indicating that bicycles can achieve self-stability without relying solely on gyroscopic or trail effects.
  • There is discussion about how different wheel sizes might affect balance, with implications for angular momentum and stability.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of viewpoints, and no consensus is reached regarding the primary factors contributing to balance on a moving bicycle. Multiple competing theories are presented, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the effects of aerodynamics and gyroscopic forces are challenged, and the complexity of bicycle stability is noted, including the need for a comprehensive understanding of various factors involved.

  • #31
A.T. said:
The situation when the bike is recovering from a lean, is that the handlebar is turned inwards. And the handlebar needs to be straightened before the bike is straightened, otherwise it will overshoot and lean to the other side.
My issue is with the demonstration that shows the wheel turning inwards as the lean increases, but not showing that gyroscopic reaction alone would steer the wheel outwards while the lean decreases, but still leaning, which would prevent recovery (and is what happens at high speeds in capsize mode). The demonstrations imply that gyroscopic reaction adds to the corrective steering response related to steering geometry, when instead it acts as a damper, opposing the corrective steering response.

A.T. said:
explain the stability of a single rolling wheel, where there is no steering geometry, just the gyroscopic steering, which in your opinion just opposes recovery from lean.
A single rolling wheel experiences a yaw torque when turning that translates into a corrective roll reaction. If a single rolling wheel is released at a leaned angle, it's rate of recovery (if recovery even occurs) is slow compared to that of a bicycle released at the same speed and lean angle, and if the initial lean angle is large enough and/or the speed low enough, the single rolling wheel travels in a circle (a spiral as it slows down) and doesn't recover to a vertical orientation. There's also the small effect of the contact patch being on the side of the tire when leaned, which creates a small outwards roll torque, but the gyroscopic reaction would be to steer outwards opposing the correction.
 
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  • #32
rcgldr said:
opposing the corrective steering response.
The gyroscopic reaction doesn't oppose what the steering geometry would do on it's own. Without the gyroscopic effect the steering geometry would also straighten the handlebar during recovery from lean.
 
  • #33
A.T. said:
The gyroscopic reaction doesn't oppose what the steering geometry would do on it's own. Without the gyroscopic effect the steering geometry would also straighten the handlebar during recovery from lean.
During lean recovery, as the lean decreases, the inwards steering also decreases, but it's still inwards, while the gyroscopic reaction would tend to steer outwards (opposing / dampening steering geometry reaction), but the steering geometry dominates so the steering remains inwards (unless in high speed capsize mode). Absent the steering geometry, there would be no lean recovery, as gyroscopic reaction is zero when the roll torque is zero, which occurs once the steering results in a coordinated and leaned turn. If while leaned, a disturbance causes the lean to decrease, an outwards roll torque and an outwards gyroscopic steering reaction would occur, until the roll torque returns to zero, and the bike would remain leaned.
 
  • #34
rcgldr said:
During lean recovery, as the lean decreases, the inwards steering also decreases,
Due to both: steering geometry and gyrosopic reaction.

rcgldr said:
but it's still inwards, while the gyroscopic reaction would tend to steer outwards
If by "steer outwards" you mean "straighten the inwards steer", then the steering geometry is doing that too.

rcgldr said:
(opposing / dampening steering geometry reaction),
I see no opposition, as both are straightening the inwards steer.
 
  • #35
A.T. said:
I see no opposition, as both are straightening the inwards steer.
During lean recovery, geometry steering reaction generates an outwards roll torque, while gyroscopic steering reaction tries to oppose outwards roll torque (absent other steering inputs, gyroscopic steering steers to eliminate any roll torque). At moderate speeds, geometry dominates and a bike is self stable. At high speed, gyroscopic reaction dominates and a bike is unstable, falling inwards at a very slow rate, called capsize mode. On a racing motorcycle at high speed, a bike tends to hold a lean angle, so if the bike is falling inwards, the rate is so slow that it's imperceptible.
 
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  • #36
rcgldr said:
During lean recovery, geometry steering reaction generates an outwards roll torque, while gyroscopic steering reaction tries to oppose outwards roll torque
Not really. The lean reducing roll torque depends on the state of the steering, which was originally turned inwards by both: geometry and gyro. During lean recovery, both effects reduce the amount of steering.
 

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