Why is my physics answer different from the calculus answer?

In summary: Thanks, tiny-tim!In summary, the conversation discusses a problem involving a rotating beacon located 2 miles out in the water and a point on the shore closest to the beacon. The beam of light from the beacon sweeps down the shore once each time it revolves at a rate of 10 revolutions per minute. The question is how fast the point where the beam hits the shore is moving when it lights up a point 2 miles along the shore from the initial point. The conversation includes a self-study attempt at solving the problem using physics and a correct solution derived from related rates calculus. The error in the physics solution is identified as multiplying by cos45° instead of dividing by it, resulting in an answer that is exactly half of the
  • #1
aleksbooker
22
0

Homework Statement



A rotating beacon is located 2 miles out in the water. Let A be the point on the shore that is closest to the beacon. As the beacon rotates at 10 rev/min, the beam of light sweeps down the shore once each time it revolves. Assume that the shore is straight. How fast is the point where the beam hits the shore moving at an instant when the beam is lighting up a point 2 miles along the shore from point A?

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Homework Equations



This is a self-study question that I took from the Ohio State University Coursera course (7.08 A Beacon Problem, if you want to see it for yourself). When I first saw it, it looked a lot like a physics question, so I tried to solve it using physics - turn rev/min into angular velocity, use that to calculate tangential velocity, then find x-component of that tangential velocity [itex]\vec{v}_{tx}[/itex], which should be the speed at the which the beam of light is moving along the shore at that instant.

My (physics-derived) answer, 40π, is exactly half of the correct (calculus-derived) answer, 80π. That makes me think that somewhere along the way, I must have made some mistake or misplaced a 2, but I can't tell where. Why is my physics answer different from the correct answer (calculated via related rates)?

The Attempt at a Solution



Let's say that the beam of light hits the shore at point B, 2 miles to the right of point A. Since the beacon light has uniform circular motion, we should be able to calculate [itex]v_t[/itex] like so:

[itex]
\omega = \frac{10rev}{min} \cdot \frac{2 \pi rad}{rev} = \frac{20 \pi rad}{min} \\
r = \sqrt{2^2 + 2^2} = \sqrt{4 + 4} = \sqrt{8} = 2 \sqrt{2} mi \\
v_t = \omega \cdot r \\
v_t = \frac{20 \pi \, rad}{min} \cdot 2\sqrt{2}mi = 40 \pi \sqrt{2} \frac{mi}{min} \\
[/itex]

I'm assuming that [itex]\vec{v_t}[/itex] is perpendicular to the beam of light, and that [itex]\vec{v_t}_x[/itex] runs along the x-axis. I'm also assuming that the angle between [itex]\vec{v_t}[/itex] and [itex]\vec{(v_t)}_x[/itex] is [itex]45^\circ[/itex], since [itex]\vec{v_t}[/itex] is always parallel to the direction of motion and the complementary angle must be 45 when [itex]\theta = 45^\circ[/itex] (the triangle totals 180, and since both the x and y sides are 2, their angles must be 45 each), then...

[itex]\cos{45} = \frac{\vec{(v_t)}_x}{\vec{v_t}} \\
\vec{(v_t)}_x = \vec{v_t} \cdot 20 \pi \cos{45} = 40 \pi \\
\vec{(v_t)}_x = 40 \pi
[/itex]

But...

The calculation via related rates gives this solution...

[itex]\frac{d\theta}{dt} = 2\pi \cdot 10 = 20\pi \\
\tan{\theta} = \frac{x}{2} = \frac{1}{2}x \\
(\tan{\theta})' = (\frac{1}{2}x)' \\
\sec^2{\theta} \cdot \frac{d\theta}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} \cdot \frac{dx}{dt} \\
\frac{dx}{dt} = 2 \cdot \sec^2{\theta} \cdot 20\pi \\
= 2 \cdot (\frac{1}{\cos{45}})^2 \cdot 20\pi \\
= 2 \cdot (\frac{1}{\frac{\sqrt{2}}{2}})^2 \cdot 20\pi \\
= 2 \cdot \frac{1}{\frac{2}{4}} \cdot 20\pi \\
= 2 \cdot 2 \cdot 20\pi \\
= 80\pi[/itex]

I totally accept the calculus solution and explanation. I just don't understand why I couldn't get the same answer through physics.
 

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  • #2
hi aleksbooker! welcome to pf! :smile:

you multiplied by cos45° = 1/√2, instead of dividing by it (so your answer was exactly half) :wink:

(your reality-mistake was that the "tangential" speed is a component of the actual speed, but you were treating it as the other way round)
 
  • #3
Thanks, tiny-tim! That was such a frustrating problem.

Just to confirm, the mistake I made looks like this?

Kfq4XlY.jpg


I feel like I've made this mistake many, many times. Should I always set the full value as the hypotenuse and the components as the "x" and "y" (or "a" and "b") sides?

Appreciate your help. :)
 

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  • #4
hi aleksbooker! :smile:
aleksbooker said:
Should I always set the full value as the hypotenuse and the components as the "x" and "y" (or "a" and "b") sides?

the components will always be smaller than the full value, so yes, the full value has to be the hypotenuse :wink:
 
  • #5
Gotcha. Learning something new everyday.
 

1. Why is my physics answer different from the calculus answer?

There could be several reasons for this discrepancy. One possibility is that there may be errors in your calculations or assumptions in one of the methods. It is also possible that the physics problem is simplified and does not take into account certain factors that the calculus approach considers. In some cases, the difference may be due to rounding errors or significant figures.

2. Which answer should I trust, the physics or the calculus one?

Both answers can be correct depending on the context of the problem. Physics and calculus use different approaches and assumptions to solve problems, so it is not uncommon for the answers to differ. It is important to carefully consider the problem and choose the appropriate method to use.

3. Can I use either the physics or calculus answer interchangeably?

No, the answers cannot be used interchangeably. Each method has its own set of assumptions and limitations, so using one answer in place of the other may lead to incorrect results. It is important to understand the underlying principles of both physics and calculus to know when to use each method.

4. Will the difference in answers affect my final grade or the accuracy of my work?

In most cases, the difference in answers should not affect your final grade or the accuracy of your work. However, if the discrepancy is due to a mistake in your calculations or understanding of the problem, it could impact your grade. It is always best to double check your work and make sure you understand the problem before submitting your final answer.

5. How can I ensure that my physics and calculus answers are the same?

In general, it is not necessary for the physics and calculus answers to be the same. However, if you want to verify your work, you can try using both methods to solve the problem and compare the results. Additionally, it is important to carefully check your work and ensure that all assumptions and calculations are correct to minimize any discrepancies between the two answers.

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