Why is the balloon sticking to the wall?

  • Context: High School 
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    Balloon Wall
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of a negatively charged balloon sticking to a wall, exploring the mechanisms of charge transfer and the concepts of conduction and induction. Participants examine why the balloon does not fall due to electron transfer and the role of the balloon's material properties in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that when a balloon is negatively charged, the expectation might be that electrons transfer to the wall, leading to conduction and causing the balloon to drop.
  • Others argue that the balloon's rubber or nonconductive material prevents free movement of electrons, which contributes to the balloon sticking to the wall.
  • One participant describes the balance of forces acting on the electrons, suggesting that the electrostatic force between the electrons and the wall is countered by the force exerted by the balloon material, resulting in the balloon remaining in place.
  • Another participant expresses frustration with the lack of detailed explanations in textbooks and teaching, indicating a desire for a more thorough understanding of the underlying principles.
  • One reply emphasizes that induction is necessary for the attractive force between the balloon and the wall to exist, suggesting that without induction, the phenomenon would not occur.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms at play, particularly regarding the roles of conduction and induction. There is no consensus on the adequacy of current educational explanations or the clarity of the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the explanations provided in educational contexts, suggesting that assumptions about prior knowledge may hinder understanding. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the physical principles involved.

seratia
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When you negatively charge a balloon, by rubbing it on clothes, and then placing it against the wall, why doesn't the electrons move to the wall, causing the balloon to drop?

I would have thought the electron transfers to the wall - therefore an example of conduction.

Why is it induction and sticks to the wall, rather than conduction and the balloon falling down.
 
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seratia said:
I would have thought the electron transfers to the wall - therefore an example of conduction.
Why is it induction and sticks to the wall, rather than conduction and the balloon falling down.
The balloon is rubber or some other nonconductive material so the electrons cannot move freely through it. The attractive force between the electrons and the wall is not strong enough to drag the electrons through the balloon material so they stay put. Or in terms of Newton's laws: the net force on the electrons is zero because the electrostatic force between them and the wall is balanced by the force of the balloon material on the electrons; the balloon material is exerting a force on the electrons so the electrons are exerting an equal and opposite force on the balloon material; this force is pushing the balloon against the wall; and friction between the balloon and the wall keeps the balloon is place against the force of gravity.
 
Nugatory said:
The balloon is rubber or some other nonconductive material so the electrons cannot move freely through it. The attractive force between the electrons and the wall is not strong enough to drag the electrons through the balloon material so they stay put. Or in terms of Newton's laws: the net force on the electrons is zero because the electrostatic force between them and the wall is balanced by the force of the balloon material on the electrons; the balloon material is exerting a force on the electrons so the electrons are exerting an equal and opposite force on the balloon material; this force is pushing the balloon against the wall; and friction between the balloon and the wall keeps the balloon is place against the force of gravity.

I wonder why they can't explain it like this in textbooks. They just expect you to take it at face value. Even the high school teacher doesn't seem to know this explanation. He just knows that it's "induction". And then they expect you to solve problems, when they did 0 teaching.
 
well, induction is still needed - without it, there wouldn't be an attractive force between the electrons and the wall.
 

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