Why Is the Containment xR ⊆ x1R Proper in Lemma 4.3.10?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around understanding the proof of Lemma 4.3.10 from Paul E. Bland's book "Rings and Their Modules," specifically the proper containment of the ideals \( xR \) and \( x_1R \). Participants are exploring the implications of this proper containment in the context of constructing an increasing chain of ideals within a noetherian ring.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the necessity of proving that the containment \( xR \subseteq x_1R \) is proper, seeking clarification on how this contributes to the overall proof.
  • Another participant explains that the goal is to construct an increasing chain of ideals \( xR \subsetneq x_1R \subsetneq x_2R \subsetneq \cdots \) in a noetherian ring, which must terminate due to the properties of noetherian rings.
  • A later reply discusses the implications of the chain terminating at \( x_nR \), suggesting that if \( x_n \) is not primitive, the chain could be extended, leading to a contradiction.
  • One participant confirms the reasoning about the contradiction if \( x_n \) is not primitive, elaborating on the argument that \( x_n = x_{n+1} b \) for some non-unit \( b \) would imply a proper containment \( x_nR \subsetneq x_{n+1}R \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the reasoning behind the construction of the increasing chain and the implications of its termination, though the initial necessity of proving the proper containment remains a point of inquiry.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the implications of the proof's steps, particularly the conditions under which the chain of ideals is constructed and the definitions of primitive elements in the context of the proof.

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I am reading Paul E. Bland's book, "Rings and Their Modules".

I am focused on Section 4.3: Modules Over Principal Ideal Domains ... and I need some help to fully understand the proof of Lemma 4.3.10 ... ...

Lemma 4.3.10 and its proof read as follows:https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/8283
View attachment 8284I do not follow the strategy of the proof ... for example Bland writes:

" ... ... Thus, $$xR \subseteq x_1 R$$ and we claim that this containment is proper ... ... "But ... why is Bland proving that this containment is proper ... what is the point ... how is this furthering the proof ...?Peter
 
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He wants to construct an increasing chain
$$xR \subsetneq x_1R \subsetneq x_2R \subsetneq \cdots $$

in $F$, in which each containment is proper.
But he clains that $F$ is noetherian (by prop.4.2.11) and therefore this chain must terminate.
 
steenis said:
He wants to construct an increasing chain
$$xR \subsetneq x_1R \subsetneq x_2R \subsetneq \cdots $$

in $F$, in which each containment is proper.
But he clains that $F$ is noetherian (by prop.4.2.11) and therefore this chain must terminate.
Thanks for the help, Steenis ...

Appreciate your assistance ...

Just a further point ...

At the end of Bland's proof we read ...

" ... ... If the chain terminates at $$x_n R$$ then $$x_n$$ is primitive ... ... " Why/how does the chain terminating at $$x_n R$$ imply that $$x_n$$ is primitive ... ...?Peter***EDIT***

Thinking about it a bit more I suspect that if $$x_n$$ is not primitive then we can extend the chain by showing $$x_n R \subsetneq x_{n+1} R $$ ... but ... contradiction! ... the chain terminates at $$x_n$$ ...

Is that correct ... ?

Peter
 
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Yes correct. If $x_n$ is not primitive then $x_n = x_{n+1} b$ with $x_{n+1} \in F$ and $b \in R$ is not a unit. And then $x_n R \subsetneq x_{n+1} R$. The same argument is used a few times in the proof.
 

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