Why Is the Equality in This Spectral Analysis Proof Correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a proof from "Time Series Analysis and Its Applications with R examples" regarding a spectral analysis equality. Participants are exploring the mathematical steps involved in the proof, particularly focusing on the summation of complex exponentials and their implications in the context of Fourier decomposition. The discussion is technical and involves mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the final equality in the proof and suggests that the terms involving complex exponentials might cancel out.
  • Another participant argues that the terms do not need to cancel if they are zero on their own, prompting questions about how they could be zero.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of De Moivre's theorem to non-integer powers, leading to a discussion on the validity of certain mathematical identities.
  • Participants suggest trying specific values for n to better understand the summation, with one noting that the sum does not equal zero for certain cases.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the notation of j and its relation to the imaginary unit, with some participants correcting the notation used in the summation.
  • There is a proposal that the summation can be recombined to express it in terms of cosine functions, but uncertainty remains about how the series sums to zero.
  • One participant notes that the textbook excludes specific cases (j = 0 and j = n/2) from consideration, which may affect the validity of the proof for other values of j.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the proof or the behavior of the summation for different values of j. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the mathematical steps involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved mathematical steps and the dependence on specific cases being excluded from the analysis. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the mathematical expressions involved.

Ma Xie Er
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I'm reading "Time Series Analysis and Its Applications with R examples", 3rd edition, by Shumway and Stoffer, and I don't really understand a proof. This is not for homework, just my own edification.

It goes like this:
Σt=1n cos2(2πtj/n) = ¼ ∑t=1n (e2πitj/n - e2πitj/n)2 = ¼∑t=1ne4πtj/n + 1 + 1 + e-4πtj/n = n/2.

I'm don't see how the last equality follows. I think, somehow, that the e4πtj/n and e-4πtj/n terms cancel out, but how?

Any ideas?
 
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Ma Xie Er said:
I think, somehow, that the e4πtj/n and e-4πtj/n terms cancel out, but how?
They don't need to cancel out if they are each 0 on their own.
 
Dale said:
They don't need to cancel out if they are each 0 on their own.

How are they zero on their own? If this is by De Moivre's theorem, then that doesn't apply to non-integers powers, i.e. (cos(x)+isin(x))n ≠(cos(nx) + i sin(nx)) for n ∉ℤ.
 
Ma Xie Er said:
How are they zero on their own?
Why don't you try it by hand for small n. Try writing out the sum for n=4.
 
Last edited:
Dale said:
Why don't you try it by hand for small n. Try writing out the sum for n=4.
Yes, I can see that, for n=4, j=1, but it doesn't work for j=2, n=4.
t=14 e4π i t 2/4 =∑t=14 eπ i (2t) = (-1)2 + (-1)4 + (-1)6 + (-1)8 ≠ 0.
 
Umm. Doesn't ##j=\sqrt{-1}## always?
 
Dale said:
Umm. Doesn't ##j=\sqrt{-1}## always?

No. n is a positive integer, and j= 1, ..., [[n/2]], where [[n/2]] is the floor or greatest integer function of n/2.
 
Dale said:
Umm. Doesn't ##j=\sqrt{-1}## always?
This text denotes i as √(-1)
 
Here's a link to the text http://www.stat.pitt.edu/stoffer/tsa3/tsa3.pdf. I was trying to solve Problem 2.10 on pg 77 (pg 87 of pdf). I don't quite understand footnote9, which is why I posted. I'm completely new to Fourier decomposition, so I'm having a hard time with this.
 
  • #10
Ma Xie Er said:
This text denotes i as √(-1)
Oh, then your summand is written wrong. You wrote.
$$ \sum _{t=1}^n e^{4\pi t j/n} + 1 + 1 + e^{-4\pi t j/n} $$
but it should be
$$ \sum _{t=1}^n e^{4\pi i t j/n} + 1 + 1 + e^{-4\pi i t j/n} $$

I'm not sure that fixes the proof, but it is important to write the problem clearly.
 
  • #11
OK, so I don't think that they individually sum to 0, but you can recombine them to get
$$ \sum _{t=1}^n \cos(4\pi t j/n) + 2 $$
 
  • #12
Dale said:
OK, so I don't think that they individually sum to 0, but you can recombine them to get
$$ \sum _{t=1}^n \cos(4\pi t j/n) + 2 $$

I think ##e^{ix}-e^{-ix}= 2 cos(x)##. In this case, ##e^{4 \pi t j/n}+ e^{- 4 \pi t j/n} = 2 cos(4 \pi t j/n)##, so shouldn't it be ##\sum_{t=1}^n 2 (1 + cos(4 \pi t j/n)## ?

And after this I'm still not sure how the series sums to 0.
 
  • #13
Right now I agree with you on that. It doesn't appear to work for j = n/2
 
  • #14
Just looked at the textbook. It specifically excludes the cases j = 0 and j = n/2. I think it works for all other j.
 
  • #15
Oops. You I forgot that case.

For ##j=1,.,,[[n/2]]-1##, I still don't see why it's true.
 

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