Why is the integral of the Dirac Delta potential related to its properties?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of integrals involving the Dirac delta potential, particularly focusing on the behavior of integrals of functions and their derivatives in the context of quantum mechanics. Participants explore the implications of continuity and discontinuity of wavefunctions and how these affect the evaluation of integrals related to the Dirac delta function.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the integral of the second derivative of a function, \(\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}\phi''(x)dx\), equals \(\phi'(\epsilon)-\phi'(-\epsilon)\), while the integral of the function itself, \(\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}\phi(x)dx\), is zero under certain conditions.
  • It is noted that if \(\phi\) is continuous, then \(\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}\phi(x)dx=0\) holds true, but the implications of discontinuity are debated.
  • Participants discuss specific functions, such as \(\phi(x)=e^x\), and how they do not satisfy the continuity conditions required for certain integrals to evaluate to zero.
  • One participant introduces the function \(\phi(x)=|x|\) and explores its derivatives, prompting questions about the limits of integrals involving this function's second derivative.
  • Another participant references the Schrödinger equation with a delta potential and discusses the continuity of wavefunctions across regions, leading to further inquiries about the behavior of integrals as \(\epsilon\) approaches zero.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of the delta function and its role as an operator, emphasizing the need to specify the domain of functions for proper definition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the conditions under which certain integrals yield zero or non-zero results. There is no consensus on the implications of continuity and discontinuity for the integrals discussed, and multiple viewpoints are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the continuity of functions and the specific definitions of the delta function as an operator. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions involved in the evaluation of the integrals.

alejandrito29
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why in the problem of dirac delta potential, the integral

[tex]\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}\phi''(x)dx[/tex] is equal to [tex]\phi'(\epsilon)-\phi'(-\epsilon)[/tex]?

but [tex]\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}\phi(x)dx[/tex] is equal to 0

if, for example[tex]\phi(x)=e^x[/tex]

then [tex]\phi(x)''=\phi(x)[/tex]

but, the firts integral is [tex]e^{\epsilon}-e^{-\epsilon}[/tex]
and the second integral would be to zero

i don't understand
 
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alejandrito29 said:
why in the problem of dirac delta potential, the integral

[tex]\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}\phi''(x)dx[/tex] is equal to [tex]\phi'(\epsilon)-\phi'(-\epsilon)[/tex]?

Do you know why this is required?
alejandrito29 said:
but [tex]\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}\phi(x)dx[/tex] is equal to 0

If [itex]\phi[/itex] is continuous, this is true.

In this situation, you want to work with wavefunctions that satisfy the above two conditions.
alejandrito29 said:
if, for example[tex]\phi(x)=e^x[/tex]

then [tex]\phi(x)''=\phi(x)[/tex]

but, the firts integral is [tex]e^{\epsilon}-e^{-\epsilon}[/tex]
and the second integral would be to zero

i don't understand

If [itex]\phi \left( x \right)=e^x[/itex], then [itex]\phi \left( x \right)[/itex] does not satisfy the above two conditions, and thus [itex]\phi \left( x \right)=e^x[/itex] is not a possible wavefunction.
 
George Jones said:
Do you know why this is required?


If [itex]\phi[/itex] is continuous, this is true.

In this situation, you want to work with wavefunctions that satisfy the above two conditions.


If [itex]\phi \left( x \right)=e^x[/itex], then [itex]\phi \left( x \right)[/itex] does not satisfy the above two conditions, and thus [itex]\phi \left( x \right)=e^x[/itex] is not a possible wavefunction.

then :
¿ only if: [tex]\phi(x)[/tex] is continuous then [tex]\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}\phi(x)dx=0?[/tex]

if [tex]\phi(x)[/tex] is discontinuous then the integral is not zero?
 
Last edited:
alejandrito29 said:
then :
¿ only if: [tex]\phi(x)[/tex] is continuous then [tex]\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}\phi(x)dx=0?[/tex]

There is a subtle difference between this and what I wrote. I did not write "only if", I wrote "if".
alejandrito29 said:
if [tex]\phi(x)[/tex] is discontinuous then the integral is not zero?

I am not sure what you mean.

Consider a function somewhat related to the problem, [itex]\phi \left( x \right) = \left| x \right|[/itex]. What are: [itex]\phi' \left( x \right)[/itex]; [itex]\phi'' \left( x \right)[/itex];

[tex]\lim_{\epsilon \rightarrow 0} \int^\epsilon_{-\epsilon} \phi'' \left( x \right) dx?[/tex]
 
George Jones said:
Consider a function somewhat related to the problem, [itex]\phi \left( x \right) = \left| x \right|[/itex]. What are: [itex]\phi' \left( x \right)[/itex]; [itex]\phi'' \left( x \right)[/itex];

[tex]\lim_{\epsilon \rightarrow 0} \int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon} \phi'' \left( x \right) dx?[/tex]

I think:

[tex]\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon} \phi''(x) =\phi'(x)|^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}[/tex]

[tex]=(\theta(x)-\theta(-x))|^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon}[/tex]

Heaviside function:
[tex]\theta(x)=1; x>0[/tex] [tex]\theta(x)=0; x<0[/tex]

then
[tex]\int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon} \phi''(x) =2\theta(\epsilon)-2\theta(-\epsilon)=2-0=2[/tex]

I'm not sure....
 
[tex]\frac{d^2\psi}{dx^2}+\frac{2m}{\hbar^2}[E-V(x)]\psi(x)=0[/tex]

[tex]V(x)=-\alpha\delta(x),\alpha>0[/tex]

You will have two region; region 1 for [tex]x<0[/tex] and region 2 for [tex]x\geq 0[/tex]. In the boundary of this two regions wave function must me continuous. Integrate equation

[tex]-\frac{\hbar^2}{2m}\frac{d^2}{dx^2}\psi(x)-\alpha\delta(x)\psi(x)=E\psi(x)[/tex] from [tex]-\epsilon[/tex] to [tex]\epsilon[/tex] you will get

[tex]\psi'(0^+)-\psi'(0^-)=-\frac{2m\alpha}{\hbar^2}\psi(0)[/tex]
 
Petar Mali said:
[tex]\frac{d^2\psi}{dx^2}+\frac{2m}{\hbar^2}[E-V(x)]\psi(x)=0[/tex]

[tex]V(x)=-\alpha\delta(x),\alpha>0[/tex]

You will have two region; region 1 for [tex]x<0[/tex] and region 2 for [tex]x\geq 0[/tex]. In the boundary of this two regions wave function must me continuous. Integrate equation

[tex]-\frac{\hbar^2}{2m}\frac{d^2}{dx^2}\psi(x)-\alpha\delta(x)\psi(x)=E\psi(x)[/tex] from [tex]-\epsilon[/tex] to [tex]\epsilon[/tex] you will get

[tex]\psi'(0^+)-\psi'(0^-)=-\frac{2m\alpha}{\hbar^2}\psi(0)[/tex]

thanks , but my main question is about the properties of integrals:

¿¿when

[tex]\lim_{\epsilon \rightarrow 0} \int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon} \phi(x)'' dx,[/tex][tex]\lim_{\epsilon \rightarrow 0} \int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon} \phi(x)' dx,[/tex][tex]\lim_{\epsilon \rightarrow 0} \int^{\epsilon}_{-\epsilon} \phi(x) dx,[/tex]

are zero or non zero?
 
That is a question of definition. The delta function alone is not a well defined operator.
However, the kinetic energy operator with a delta function can be shown to be one.
To define an operator, you have to specify the domain of functions on which it is defined. In one dimension you can either choose psi to be continuous with discontinous first derivative, which then is called a delta function type potential, or to be discontinous, in the latter case, one speaks of a delta' interaction.
 

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