Why is the Principle of Equivalence Necessary for GTR?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relevance of the principle of equivalence (POE) in the context of the general theory of relativity (GTR). Participants explore the foundational role of the POE, its implications for understanding spacetime geometry, and its relationship with concepts such as covariance and the energy-momentum tensor. The conversation includes technical aspects related to Christoffel symbols and their applicability in accelerating reference frames.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the necessity of the POE, noting that curvature measuring tensors are not applicable in accelerating reference frames and asking why Einstein considered it foundational for GTR.
  • Another participant asserts that Christoffel symbols are very relevant in linearly accelerating systems, prompting further inquiry into their specific use.
  • A participant explains that Christoffel symbols are applicable in any curvilinear coordinate system, including accelerated coordinate systems in Minkowski space.
  • Several participants speculate on the implications if gravitational mass were not equal to inertial mass, suggesting it would not lead to a geometric theory.
  • One participant emphasizes that the POE is a local principle, arguing against the notion of a "global" application of the POE and clarifying that every curved spacetime appears locally flat.
  • Another participant discusses an alternative approach involving local Poincare symmetry of special relativity, which also leads to a geometrical description of gravity, mentioning its extension to Einstein-Cartan theory in the presence of non-zero-spin particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of the principle of equivalence, particularly regarding its local versus global applicability. There is no consensus on the role of Christoffel symbols in accelerating frames or on the implications of differing mass types.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the limitations of the POE in admitting tidal forces globally, while others emphasize its local nature. The discussion includes unresolved questions about the relationship between gravitational and inertial mass and the implications for the geometric nature of gravity.

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TL;DR
What is the relevance of the principle of equivalence in the general theory of relativity. Constant accelerating reference frames do not generate "tidal" forces in their frames.
I am studying the general theory of relativity(GTR). Covariance and the principle of equivalence are foundational pillars for the theory. I can understand the need for covariance but I don't see why the need for the principle of equivalence (POE). What I have seen so far is that the properties and curvature of spacetime due to mass/energy via the energy-momentum tensor(EMT) must be described by using the Riemann tensor, Ricci tensor, and the Ricci scalar, among other mathematical objects such as the Christoffel symbols. But these curvature measuring tensors and non-tensors are not applicable in an accelerating reference frame because real curvature does not occur in accelerating systems that are accelerating in flat spacetime. So why did EInstein cite the POE as a necessary foundation? Are Christoffel symbols even relevant in linearly accelerating reference frames? I understand that POE is defined for a homogenous gravitational field locally. But globally the POE does not admit tidal forces. So why even the need for the POE as a conceptual footing for GTR?
 
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e2m2a said:
Summary:: What is the relevance of the principle of equivalence in the general theory of relativity. Constant accelerating reference frames do not generate "tidal" forces in their frames.

Are Christoffel symbols even relevant in linearly accelerating reference frames?
Yes. Very very very relevant.
 
Orodruin said:
Yes. Very very very relevant.
How are Christoffel symbols used in linearly accelerating systems?
 
e2m2a said:
How are Christoffel symbols used in linearly accelerating systems?
Christoffel symbols are relevant to any curvilinear coordinate system (as it is in Euclidean space as well), which is effectively what an accelerated coordinate system in Minkowski space is by definition.
 
How would the theory look if gravitational mass was not equal to inertial mass?
 
Rabindranath said:
How would the theory look if gravitational mass was not equal to inertial mass?
It would not be a geometric theory.
 
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Rabindranath said:
How would the theory look if gravitational mass was not equal to inertial mass?
mmm. let me think about that.
 
e2m2a said:
globally the POE does not admit tidal forces
There is no "globally" for the POE. It is only a local principle. That's the whole point: every curved spacetime looks locally like flat spacetime, but only locally.
 
e2m2a said:
Summary:: What is the relevance of the principle of equivalence in the general theory of relativity. Constant accelerating reference frames do not generate "tidal" forces in their frames.

. I can understand the need for covariance but I don't see why the need for the principle of equivalence (POE).
The POE basically says that gravity can be described as spacetime geometry. So it is pretty central to GR. Any theory that respects the POE can be geometrized and any geometrical theory of gravity respects the POE.
 
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An alternative is to make Poincare symmetry of SR local, which also leads to a spacetime geometrical description of the gravitational interaction, and the EP is derived in this way. In the most general case when matter with non-zero-spin particles is present, it's however an extension of GR to Einstein-Cartan theory (i.e., a differentiable manifold with pseudometric of signature (1,3) or (3,1) with a metric compatible connection and torsion).
 
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