The discussion centers on the occurrence of thunderstorms and lightning during winter months, particularly in regions like Montreal and New England. Participants explore the conditions necessary for thunderstorms, including humidity and temperature, and share personal experiences related to winter lightning phenomena.
Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the conditions for winter thunderstorms. While some acknowledge the rarity of lightning in winter, others provide examples of thundersnow and argue that it can occur under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the topic.
Participants note that relative humidity is generally lower in winter, which may contribute to fewer thunderstorms. However, specific conditions such as temperature contrasts and moisture influx can lead to exceptions, like thundersnow.
This discussion may be of interest to those studying meteorology, weather phenomena, or individuals curious about the dynamics of winter storms and lightning occurrences.
Looks like the often misnamed 'Heat Lightning', which actually is 'cloud - to - cloud' lightning as opposed to 'cloud - to - ground lightning' . The misnomer 'heat lightning' stems from the fact that often you cannot hear the clap of thunder in such events. Living in New England , I've been through a few severe snowstorms with lightning (thunder snow) present, and wow, these are huge storms with cold air on the north and west side of the Low Pressure area, and warm moist air, on the south and southeast side, feeding in from the southern states and from the southeast warmer waters of the Atlantic Ocean. A marvel of nature to behold, but a pain in the back from snow shoveling the next day (I won't tell you where the real pain ischrismcgrain said:
).We usually have thundersnow at least a couple of times each winter. Maine is in a kind of unique place, though, in which we can get arctic highs spilling in from Canada and colliding with warmer, wetter air coming up the Eastern seaboard and off the Gulf of Maine. I'm not sure how the mechanics work, but it's probably got something to do with cold, dense air masses diving under the warmer, moist air and causing those to rise quickly.Sniperman724 said:
The sound of thunder probably does not carry as well through a blizzard, and people are generally inside when it's winter and the weather is conducive to such storms. I try to get outside a lot, though, and since we have a dog who loves late-night walks with me, I probably see more of the flashes and detect more of the rumbles than most people. It's pretty quiet out here in the boonies.DaveC426913 said:
WrongSniperman724 said:
. If it's 32 degrees F (0 degrees C), and the dew point is also 32 degrees F (0 degrees C), then the relative humidity is 100 percent. That means that the air is fully saturated, although at these temperatures, the air cannot hold as much moisture as air at summertime 90 degrees F readings (37 celsius). For this reason, lightning during winter temperatures (I'm not talking Florida winters!) is not a usual event. So that is why when it does occur, you find yourself in one doozy of a storm, with very sharp temperature contrasts between the cold air layer to the north and the overriding warm air layer to the south.I agree. Here in the heart of Red Sox Nation, we usually see, on average, 1 thundersnow event per winter. I have a love/hate relationship with this display of nature. :!)/DaveC426913 said:
Relative humidity is lower in the winter for much of the US. That's why there is more frost in the fall than in the winter and why it is cloudier in the summer than winter. It's also why the UFO-contrail "sightings" are more prevalent in the fall and winter.PhanthomJay said:Wrong
PhanthomJay said:Looks like the often misnamed 'Heat Lightning', which actually is 'cloud - to - cloud' lightning as opposed to 'cloud - to - ground lightning' . The misnomer 'heat lightning' stems from the fact that often you cannot hear the clap of thunder in such events. Living in New England , I've been through a few severe snowstorms with lightning (thunder snow) present, and wow, these are huge storms with cold air on the north and west side of the Low Pressure area, and warm moist air, on the south and southeast side, feeding in from the southern states and from the southeast warmer waters of the Atlantic Ocean. A marvel of nature to behold, but a pain in the back from snow shoveling the next day (I won't tell you where the real pain is
Edit: I didn't realize how old the original post was! Say, Chris, are you from Ireland, are ya?
Yes, lightning in winter is associated with intense areas of low pressure with moisture influx. I don't know much about Dublin weather (except it rains a lot, I'm told, and everything is GREEN). I can only attest to New England (USA) weather , based on 50 years of experience, unfortunately.chrismcgrain said:
That's for sure, a good chunk of the US sees relatively dry air in the winter, even during snow storms where the moisture laden air falls fom the clouds above into the drier air, creating a fluffy loose dry 'powder' snow. All bets are off however along the NE US coast when large intense low pressure areas regenerate off the Carolinas coast, bringing in warm, moisture laden air from the waters to the south, clashing with the colder polar air imported from the jetstream, causing rain/snow events with high relative humidity and fog and rare but not that rare occasional thundersnow for the real intense storms, which I see sometimes once or maybe twice a year tops, but sometimes not at all for a year or 2. Depends.russ_watters said:
PhanthomJay said:Looks like the often misnamed 'Heat Lightning', which actually is 'cloud - to - cloud' lightning as opposed to 'cloud - to - ground lightning' . The misnomer 'heat lightning' stems from the fact that often you cannot hear the clap of thunder in such events. Living in New England , I've been through a few severe snowstorms with lightning (thunder snow) present, and wow, these are huge storms with cold air on the north and west side of the Low Pressure area, and warm moist air, on the south and southeast side, feeding in from the southern states and from the southeast warmer waters of the Atlantic Ocean. A marvel of nature to behold, but a pain in the back from snow shoveling the next day (I won't tell you where the real pain is
Edit: I didn't realize how old the original post was! Say, Chris, are you from Ireland, are ya?
Yep, never underestimate the power of the heat-sink that is the Gulf of Maine or the heat-sink that is the Gulf of Mexico.John Mario said:
PhanthomJay said:I agree. Here in the heart of Red Sox Nation, we usually see, on average, 1 thundersnow event per winter. I have a love/hate relationship with this display of nature. :!)/
) and I've never heard of any thundersnow around me at allalexbib said:
RebelRiver said:
Last week's 'blizzard' along the Atlantic Coast brought 'thundersnow' to several areas. There were a couple about 40 miles from me in SE MA and RI that brought snowfall rates up to an incredible 4 inches/hour for a short time period. There was a big one over Long Island Sound, and I think a couple in the NY/Jersey coastal area. Did you hear or see it?Sniperman724 said:
During that snowstorm I haven't heard or seen any 'thundersnow' around where I live. I live in central Jersey about 20 minutes from the coast. All we got was a whiteout and horrible snow plowers.. LOLPhanthomJay said:
Our plowers were too good...everytime I shoveled out my driveway, they blocked it up again .Sniperman724 said:
