Why Is There Disagreement on Entropy in Irreversible Adiabatic Processes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of entropy in irreversible adiabatic processes, exploring the reasons behind disagreements in its determination. Participants examine the implications of the Clausius inequality and the behavior of entropy in isolated systems during such processes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that an irreversible adiabatic expansion increases the entropy of a system, referencing the Clausius inequality.
  • Others emphasize that the total entropy of an isolated system or the universe increases during irreversible adiabatic processes.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding a class assignment that suggested a negative change in entropy, questioning the rationale behind this claim.
  • Another participant notes that while the change in entropy of a system can be negative, the change in entropy of the environment must be positive and greater in magnitude for irreversible processes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the interpretation of entropy changes in irreversible adiabatic processes, with multiple competing views presented without consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects related to the definitions of spontaneity and the conditions under which entropy changes are evaluated, particularly in the context of classroom assignments and theoretical considerations.

Brian Curtis
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Why does there tend to be disagreement on an irreversible adiabat entropy determination? Doesn't an irreversible adiabatic expansion increase the entropy of a system by the Clausius inequality?
 
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Total entropy of an isolated system or of Universe increases when the isolated system or universe undergoes irreversible adiabatic process.
 
Let'sthink said:
Total entropy of an isolated system or of Universe increases when the isolated system or universe undergoes irreversible adiabatic process.
That's what I've thought. It can be proved by determining entropy through a reversible cycle. However, in class, it was mentioned on an assignment that the delta S is negative and not spontaneous. Which again, does not make sense
 
I do not understand what is meant by spontaneous but for any process the change in entropy of a system can be negative but then the change in entropy of environment will be positive and greater in magnitude of the change for system, for an irreversible process.
 

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