Why isn't light described in terms of the vector potential?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the representation of light in classical electromagnetism, specifically questioning why light is typically described in terms of electric and magnetic fields rather than the vector potential. Participants explore the implications of using the vector potential in wave equations and its observability in relation to electromagnetic phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why light is described as harmonics of electric and magnetic fields instead of the vector potential, suggesting that the vector potential is a valid wave equation that propagates at the speed of light.
  • Another participant expresses a preference for the potential formulation over the field formulation, indicating a subjective view on the utility of each approach.
  • It is noted that the electric and magnetic fields are considered observables, while the vector potential is often described as not being observable, leading to confusion about the implications of this distinction.
  • A participant references the Aharonov-Bohm effect to illustrate that the vector potential contains information not captured by local electric and magnetic fields, yet questions the observability of the vector potential itself.
  • One participant asserts that the change in interference patterns in the Aharonov-Bohm effect is due to the magnetic field rather than the vector potential, raising a challenge to the interpretation of the effect.
  • A historical perspective is provided, suggesting that Maxwell viewed the vector potential as a real field, and that the standard formulations of electromagnetism evolved over time, potentially affecting the relationship between wave equations in different formulations.
  • A participant expresses a belief, though unproven, that wave equations in the vector potential and electric potential may not be equivalent to those in electric and magnetic fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the utility and observability of the vector potential versus electric and magnetic fields. There is no consensus on the implications of these formulations or their equivalence in describing electromagnetic phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the historical evolution of electromagnetic theory and the potential differences in the mathematical treatment of wave equations in various formulations, but do not resolve these complexities.

Phrak
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Why is the light assumed to be harmonics of the electric and magnetic fields rather than harmonics of the vector potential?

Am I missing something? Whenever details about light are given in classical physics we are always told about second derivatives of E and B. Why isn't light given as a second derivative of the vector potential in four dimensions? It's a perfectly good wave equation and propagates are c.

To put everything up front, Amu is a four dimensional vector. Amu = (At, Ai). It has three spacelike components and one timelike component. It is Lorentz convariant. Why shouldn't light be the second derivatives of Amu?

We could describe the motion of a pendulum as d4x/dt4= cos(omega t), but why go to this extent when the zeroth derivative will do.
 
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I'm with you, I like the potential formulation better than the field formulation whenever possible.
 
The two formulations are just two different ways of doing the same thing. Some things are easier in one or the other. For, instance polarization is easier with E.
 
The electric and magnetic fields are observables, and I've heard it said A is not. This latter puzzles me because it's possible to write a problem in terms of an electrical potential, A0 which certainly is observable. So, what do people mean when they say the 4-vector A is not observable ?

Re, Arahanov-Bohm effect, from Wiki

The Aharonov–Bohm effect shows that the local E and B fields do not contain full information about the electromagnetic field, and the electromagnetic four-potential, A, must be used instead

but

In classical electromagnetism the two descriptions were equivalent.
 
The Aharonov-Bohm effect has to do with the change in the phase of the wave function of a charged particle when passing near a localized magnetic field. But, the phase of a wave function is not an observable precisely in the same way as the electromagnetic potentials are not observables.

Sure, you may detect interference fringes change when the electromagnet is turned on. But, I claim that this is exactly due to the B-field and not the A-field being present between the slits and the screen. Namely, what will happen to the fringes if the solenoid was not in the way?
 
In my understanding of the history of electromagnetism, Maxwell believed that the vector potential was a real field and used it often in his writings. It was only later, due in the most part to Hertz and one other--can't recall who, where the present formulas we are familiar with today, in terms of 4 differential equations or 4 integral equations, became standard. On physicist, Sean Carroll refers to the differential equations as the "Maxwell-Hertz equations."

But getting back to a wave equation in the vector potential, I don't believe that wave equations in A and phi(the electric potential) are isomorphic to wave equations in E and B. That is, I think that we can have wave equations in A and phi that do not result in wave equations in E and B. This is a hunch--I haven't proved it.
 

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