Why isn't the Czechoslovakian wolf dog classified as a hybrid?

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  • #1
Pleonasm
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Why is this not classified as a hybrid instead of dog? I tried googling how much wolf there is in this breed and it states that the average is 30% wolf. The owner claimed that it's nowdays classified as a dog.

The owner had his loose on the beach (2 and a half years), and it really wanted to play with malamute who was not interested. It did not look at all like a german shepherd.
 

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  • #2
BillTre
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What kind of dog is it? (not stated)
When the owner said it was classified as a dog, did he say by whom? (dog groups may have standards different from those of scientists for example)
How credible is the owners opinion on this? (is he well informed or not?)

Does the classifying group have a standard cut-off percentage it uses with huskies vs. wolves?
 
  • #3
Pleonasm
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What kind of dog is it? (not stated)
When the owner said it was classified as a dog, did he say by whom? (dog groups may have standards different from those of scientists for example)
How credible is the owners opinion on this? (is he well informed or not?)

Does the classifying group have a standard cut-off percentage it uses with huskies vs. wolves?

Czechoslovakian wolf dog is the name of the breed. Huskie dogs - Alaskan malamute, Siberian Husky, Greenland dogs are not hybrids at all, they have the same dog DNA as other dogs. They are only wolf-like due to them being " pure breeds", that is very old dog breeds that were NOT manipulated and fully domesticated. A chezchoslovakian wolf dog has measurable wolf blood in it.
 
  • #4
BillTre
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Interesting. Never heard of the Czechoslovakian wolf dog breed.
Sounds (based on your description) like a breed that had obtained some wolf DNA from one or more crosses a while ago, but has since then been kept and bred as a dog. What percentage of "wolf" DNA do they have?
I would guess that if there were bred for generations and kept as dogs, that is what most people would call them. That does not make it a scientifically based name.

Some "huskies" are derived from hybrids with wolves. Those are the ones I was referring to when I said huskies vs. wolves, which could have better been termed husky-wolf. I have seen lots of these dogs their owners claim to by the result of crosses with wolves. Presumably (if the owners are correct) these would have a 50-50 mix of dog and wolf DNA (other than the mitocondrial DNA which comes only from the mother). Can't say for sure that's correct though.

If these hybrids were then bred to other dogs (especially if it was done repeatedly over several generations), the wolf DNA would be diluted out by the continual introduction of 50% dog DNA each generation, then the percentage of wolf DNA would be reduced. In addition, with or without the continued input of dog DNA, there would be selection pressures on the wolf-dog hybrid to remove from its genome DNA coding for traits that would be non-adaptive to living with humans (such as leading to aggression toward humans). This would selectively remove those traits and the DNA associated with them, reducing the overall wolf DNA content somewhat. Perhaps this happened with the Czechoslovakian wolf dog breed.

Most breeds of dog are the result of a long slow process of domestication (which is considered to be mostly selection on the proto-dogs as a consequence of living with and getting along with people). I would consider pure bred huskies fully domesticated, a wolf-husky hybrid maybe not. There is not a clear bright line separating domesticated from non-domesticated. There have been https://www.physicsforums.com/search/62606384/?q=dog+domestication&o=relevance on this subject (including experimental domestication of foxes) as well as lots of things on the web that can be found through places like wikipedia.
 
  • #5
Pleonasm
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[
Interesting. Never heard of the Czechoslovakian wolf dog breed.
Sounds (based on your description) like a breed that had obtained some wolf DNA from one or more crosses a while ago, but has since then been kept and bred as a dog. What percentage of "wolf" DNA do they have? .

Actually, it was an intentional genetic engineering experiment crossing a grey wolf with a german shepherd 50/50. The german shepherd was one of the newest breeds of dogs, though, and not wolf-like at all. The german shepherd is a however a very cooperative breed, compared to malamutes or siberian huskies, so that's why it was choosen. They wanted the ultimate working dog, since the grey wolf had a great, almost ideal body.

I don't know the amount of wolf in todays chezchoslovakian wolf dogs. Wikipedia does not state it, and the reports online are inconsistent, ranging from 10 to 30% actual, detectable wolf.

Some "huskies" are derived from hybrids with wolves. Those are the ones I was referring to when I said huskies vs. wolves, which could have better been termed husky-wolf. I have seen lots of these dogs their owners claim to by the result of crosses with wolves. Presumably (if the owners are correct) these would have a 50-50 mix of dog and wolf DNA (other than the mitocondrial DNA which comes only from the mother). Can't say for sure that's correct though.

If these hybrids were then bred to other dogs (especially if it was done repeatedly over several generations), the wolf DNA would be diluted out by the continual introduction of 50% dog DNA each generation, then the percentage of wolf DNA would be reduced.

We don't know to this day if the alaskan malamute and siberian husky dog breeds were hybrids originally. Some say, yes, some say no. Some say they were bred with grey wolfes later in the tree. It is in any event too far back to detect. The tests show them as pure dogs.

The ones that have 50 or 30% wolf are in my opinion hybrids by definition,
 
  • #6
Pleonasm
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The one I met did not look very much like a german shepherd. I thought it was my own breed of alaskan malamute mixed with wolf. It was very excited meeting my malamute:).
 
  • #7
Rive
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Why is this not classified as a hybrid instead of dog?
Because this kind of classification depends on the relevant national FCI member association alone. DNA, history or anything else has just very limited relevance to this.
 
  • #8
Pleonasm
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Most breeds of dog are the result of a long slow process of domestication (which is considered to be mostly selection on the proto-dogs as a consequence of living with and getting along with people). I would consider pure bred huskies fully domesticated, a wolf-husky hybrid maybe not. .

I consider malamutes and husky dogs in general part domesticated. Here's what a malamute breeder states:

Malamutes share many traits with wolves because they are dogs - and more so because they are a natural breed. A natural breed has not been shaped by man into a specific mold for a specific purpose.

The only purpose Malamutes were shaped for is pulling and confidence around man. They were allowed to be alert dogs - barking to warn for polar bears or wolves (perhaps that's where the dog aggression comes from?) and not much else. Whereas when other breeds were being developed they consciously chose to retain many puppy characteristics to make them more manageable and useful (especially for a farming economy). Fetching, playfulness, barking, giving up the kill to a superior, not killing the livestock and 'obedient' submissive behavior are examples of these characteristics.

The Malamute was allowed to retain many wolfy characteristics in look and behavior because it benefited a nomadic people to have a dog that could survive on it's own. Examples are a developed prey drive and 'pack' behavior most other dog breeds are lacking. Other breeds are not nearly as 'pack' oriented as a Malamute is.
 

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