Why my endomorphisme between Polynomial fonction is not continuous?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the continuity of the endomorphism defined by multiplication with a polynomial in the space of real polynomials, specifically under the norm defined as $$||P|| = \sup_{t \in \mathbb{R}} e^{-|t|}|P(t)|$$. Participants explore conditions under which the multiplication map $$\Psi_{A} : P \rightarrow AP$$ is continuous or not, focusing on various types of polynomials.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to show that the multiplication map $$\Psi_{A}$$ is not continuous for a polynomial $$A$$ that is neither zero nor a constant polynomial.
  • Another participant suggests that for constant polynomials, the multiplication map is continuous, implying that non-constant polynomials may lead to discontinuity.
  • A participant clarifies the definition of the norm and the multiplication map, proposing a method to demonstrate discontinuity by examining sequences of polynomials of increasing degree.
  • Specific examples are provided, such as using $$A(x) = x$$ and $$A(x) = x^n$$, to illustrate that these cases lead to discontinuity.
  • Further exploration is made into the general case of a polynomial $$A$$ of degree $$n$$, with detailed calculations showing that the multiplication map is not continuous for any non-constant polynomial.
  • Participants discuss the implications of their findings and whether the arguments can be generalized to all non-constant polynomials.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the multiplication map is continuous for constant polynomials but disagree on the continuity for non-constant polynomials. Multiple competing views remain regarding the generality of the results presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the behavior of polynomials under the defined norm and the implications of polynomial degree on continuity. Some mathematical steps and conditions are not fully resolved, particularly in generalizing results beyond specific examples.

Calabi
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Hello let be $$E = \mathbb{R}[X]$$ with the norme $$||P|| = sup_{t \in \mathbb{R}}e^{-|t|}|P(t)|$$. Let be $$A \in E$$. How to show that $$\Psi_{A} : P \rightarrow AP$$ is not continue please?

Thank you in advance and have a nice afternoon:oldbiggrin:.
 
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For A differente of the nul. And of a 0 degrre polynom(a constant.); otherwhise it's continu in both case.
 
Can you helpe me please?
 
I haven't found a solution, but let me make clear that I have understood this correctly. You are defining a norm on ##\mathbb{R}[x]## by defining ##||P(x)|| = \sup_{t \in \mathbb{R}} e^{-|t|} |P(t)|##. This defines a metric on ##\mathbb{R}[x]##. Then you are defining multiplication maps ##\psi_{A(x)} : \mathbb{R}[x] \to \mathbb{R}[x]## for polynomials ##A(x) \in \mathbb{R}[x]## by putting ##\psi_{A(x)}(P(x)) = A(x)P(x)##. For constant polynomials ##A(x) = a_0##, these functions are clearly continuous. And the question is whether constant polynomials are the only polynomials ##A(x)## for which the corresponding multiplication map is continuous?

My attempt was trying to find a sequence of polynomials ##P_r(x)## of degree ##r## such that ##||P_r(x)|| \leq 1## for each ##r##, and then try to show that ##\psi_{A(x)}## is not continuous at ##0##. The idea is to find an appropriate sequence of such ##P_r(x)##'s such that ##||P_r(x)A(x)||## grows without bound as ##r## gets larger for any nonconstant polynomial ##A(x)##. In this case, choose ##\epsilon = 1##, and assume a ##\delta > 0## exists such that ##||P(x)|| < \delta \Rightarrow ||P(x)A(x)|| < 1##. Then ##||\frac{\delta}{2} P_r(x)|| \leq \frac{\delta}{2} < \delta##, but ##||\frac{\delta}{2} P_r(x)A(x)||## grows without bound, which shows that ##\psi_{A(x)}## is not continuous at ##0##.

For example, in the case of ##A(x) = x##, define ##P_r(x) = \frac{e^r}{r^r}x^r##. Then ##||P_r(x)|| = \frac{e^r}{r^r} \sup_{t \in \mathbb{R}} e^{-|t|} |t^r|##. To find this maximum value, we can clearly assume that ##t \geq 0## by symmetry. So to find the maximum value, we differentiate ##e^{-t}t^r## and get ##e^{-t}(rt^{r-1}-t^r)##. This expression is ##0## when ##t = r##, in which case the maximum value is ##\frac{e^r}{r^r} e^{-r}r^r = 1## (of course ##t = 0## is a minimum value). On the other hand, ##||P_r(x)A(x)|| = \frac{e^r}{r^r} \sup_{t \in \mathbb{R}} e^{-|t|} |t^{r+1}|##. Similarly, we differentiate and get the equation ##e^{-t}((r+1)t^{r}-t^{r+1}) = 0##. Here ##t = r+1##. But then the maximum value is ##\frac{e^r}{r^r} e^{-(r+1)} (r+1)^{r+1} = e^{-1}(1+ \frac{1}{r})^r (r+1) \geq e^{-1}(r+1)##. But ##\lim_{r \to \infty} e^{-1}(r+1) = \infty##. Thus the condition I described above is satisfied, and this proves that ##\phi_{x}## is not continuous at ##0##.

I do not know a proof for general nonconstant polynomials ##A(x)##, but the above example might be adapted.
 
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In the case of $$A = X$$ I find it's not continue. But could I, with that show it's not continu in general please?
 
Slight generalization: we will show that ##A(x) = x^n## is not continuous for each ##n \geq 1##. We use the ##P_r(x)## defined as above. Then ##||A(x)P_r(x)|| = \frac{e^r}{r^r} \sup_{t \in \mathbb{R}} e^{-|t|} |t^{r+n}|##. To find this, we differentiate and get ##e^{-t}((r+n)t^{r+n-1}-t^{r+n}) = 0##. So ##t = r+n##. This yields the maximum value ##\frac{e^r}{r^r} e^{-(r+n)} (r+n)^{r+n} = e^{-n}(1+ \frac{n}{r})^r (r+n)^n \geq e^{-n} (r+n)^n##. But ##\lim_{r \to \infty} e^{-n} (r+n)^n= \infty##, so ##\phi_{x^n}## is not continuous.

Do you have any ideas?
 
Okay, for a general ##A = a_nx^n + a_{n-1}x^{n-1}+... + a_0##, we have

##||AP_r(x)|| = ||a_nx^nP_r(x) +P_r(x)(a_{n-1}x^{n-1}+... + a_0)|| \geq |a_n| ||x^nP_r(x)|| - \sum_{k=0}^{n-1}|a_k| ||P_r(x)x^k|| = |a_n| e^{-n}(1+ \frac{n}{r})^r (r+n)^n - \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} |a_k| e^{-k}(1+ \frac{k}{r})^r (r+k)^k##

Now we use that

1) ##(1+ \frac{k}{r})^r \leq e^k## for all ##r## (it is an increasing sequence converging to ##e^k##).
2) ##(1+ \frac{n}{r})^r \geq 1## for all ##r##.
3) ##(r+k)^k \leq (2r)^k = 2^kr^k## for sufficiently large ##r##.
4) ##(r+n)^n \geq r^n## for all ##r##.

So

##|a_n| e^{-n}(1+ \frac{n}{r})^r (r+n)^n - \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} |a_k| e^{-k}(1+ \frac{k}{r})^r (r+k)^k \geq |a_n| e^{-n} r^n - \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} |a_k| 2^k r^k##

for sufficiently large ##r##. But this is a polynomial ##B(r)## of degree ##n## with positive coefficient ##|a_n| e^{-n}## in front of ##r^n##, so ##\lim_{r \to \infty} B(r) = \infty##. By the same argument as before, we conclude that ##\phi_A## is not continuous.
 
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