Why Proton & Neutron Contain 3 Quarks - Not 2 or 4?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the composition of protons and neutrons, specifically why they are made up of three quarks (uud and udd) and the absence of particles composed of three identical quarks (uuu or ddd). Participants explore the implications of quark combinations, particle lifetimes, decay processes, and mass differences among baryons and mesons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why certain quark combinations, such as uuu or ddd, do not exist, suggesting that plausible combinations may be limited.
  • Others point out that such particles do exist, referencing external sources for clarification.
  • Participants discuss the short lifetimes of certain baryons, attributing this to decay processes through the strong interaction and the availability of phase space.
  • One participant elaborates on the decay of specific baryons, such as the Δ baryons, and contrasts them with the longer-lived Ω baryon, linking lifetimes to the type of interaction (strong vs. weak).
  • There is a discussion on the mass differences between various baryons and mesons, with some participants providing detailed mass values and exploring the implications of these differences on stability and decay processes.
  • Questions are raised about the reasons behind the mass differences between mesons and baryons, particularly in relation to their decay pathways.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of certain quark combinations and the reasons for particle lifetimes. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the implications of quark composition and decay processes.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various baryon and meson masses, but the discussion does not resolve the underlying assumptions or dependencies related to these values. The exploration of decay mechanisms and mass differences remains open-ended.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in particle physics, quark composition, baryon and meson properties, and decay processes may find this discussion relevant.

mathman
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TL;DR
Some plausible combination do not exist. Why?
Proton and neutron are made up of three quarks (uud and udd). Why aren't there particles uuu or ddd?
 
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mathman said:
Summary:: Some plausible combination do not exist. Why?

Proton and neutron are made up of three quarks (uud and udd). Why aren't there particles uuu or ddd?
There are! See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baryons.
 
Thank you. Why are the lifetimes so short?
 
mathman said:
Thank you. Why are the lifetimes so short?
Because the decay proceed through the strong interaction. And there is a fair amount of phase space available (in other words, they are quite a bit more massive than the sum of the rest masses of the decay products).
 
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mathman said:
Thank you. Why are the lifetimes so short?
To add to my previous post: if you look at the decays of the ##\Delta^{++}## and ##\Delta^-##, a quark-antiquar pair was created, which came from a gluon. This is a strong decay.

If you look below in the table, the lifetime of the ##\Omega^-## is much much longer. If you look at the quark content, you will see that the the decay occurred through the weak interaction.
 
nrqed said:
Because the decay proceed through the strong interaction. And there is a fair amount of phase space available (in other words, they are quite a bit more massive than the sum of the rest masses of the decay products).
This of course begs the question ”why are they more massive?” That boils down to the proton-neutron forming an isospin doublet unlike the deltas, which are an isospin quadruplet. In essence, because of the difference in symmetries of those states, the spatial wave functions of the deltas have a higher energy ground state.
 
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Look around the baryon decuplet:
Δ are 1232 MeV (imprecise because resonances)
Σ* are 1383 to 1387 MeV, say average 1385 MeV
Ξ* are 1532 to 1535 MeV say average 1533 MeV
Ω is 1672,4 MeV.
Differences are thus: Δ to Σ 153 MeV, Σ to Ξ 148 MeV, Ξ to Ω 139 MeV. A narrow range.
The octuplet is lower in spin and energy.
N at average 939 MeV
Σ from 1189 to 1197 MeV, say average 1193 MeV. But uds is split to Σ0 at 1193 MeV, among the other Σ, and Λ at 1116 MeV.
Ξ from 1315 to 1322 MeV, say 1318 MeV.
The splits are then: N to Σ 254 MeV, Σ to Ξ 125 MeV, N to Λ 177 MeV, Λ to Ξ 202 MeV.

Note how N is 293 MeV below Δ. Σ 192 MeV below Σ* and Ξ 215 MeV below Ξ*

And now look at mesons.
π are 135 and 140 MeV.
K are 494 and 498 MeV.
The difference π to K is about 358 MeV. Compare to the 139 to 154 MeV differences of baryon decuplet.

uuu and ddd are unstable because π mass is so low. All decuplet baryons can deexcite by emitting π... except Ω, because the difference Ω to Ξ is still about 354 MeV, and K is far too heavy.

Why is the mass difference K-π so different from the baryon mass differences?
 

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