Why quarks' wave functions are eigenstates of I and Iz

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of quark wave functions as eigenstates of isospin operators I and Iz within the context of Quantum Chromodynamics (QCD) and the Standard Model (SM). Participants explore the implications of flavor SU(2) symmetry and the relationship between quark states and their quantum numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that due to the symmetry of the system, the corresponding charges become good quantum numbers, allowing for a basis where states are eigenstates of I^2 and Iz.
  • Others question whether the eigenstates of Iz correspond to the real up and down quarks or some linear combinations of them.
  • It is noted that the u and d quark states are charge eigenstates, with conventions relating isospin to electric charge and hypercharge.
  • Some participants discuss how electric charge and isospin are symmetries of the QCD Lagrangian, implying conservation of these quantum numbers in prepared states.
  • There is a suggestion that the direction of axes in isospin space can be chosen arbitrarily, leading to specific eigenvalue assignments for quarks.
  • Concerns are raised about the fixed nature of these eigenstates in relation to electroweak symmetry breaking and how this relates to the Standard Model Lagrangian.
  • It is mentioned that having Iz diagonal is a choice of basis, which aligns with observational states, but alternative bases could complicate the analysis without being incorrect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express both agreement and disagreement on various aspects of the discussion. While some points about symmetry and quantum numbers are accepted, there remains contention regarding the nature of the eigenstates and their relationship to quark interactions.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made about the eigenstates and their linear combinations, as well as the implications of the QCD and SM Lagrangians on these quantum numbers.

LayMuon
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This might sound like a totally dumb question but anyway:

QCD lagrangian in the limit of mu=md has flavor SU(2) symmetry with respect these two quarks. And we say that these quarks' wave functions are eigenstates of I and Iz. The question is why?

Thanks.
 
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Whenever there is a symmetry of the system, the corresponding charges of the states become good quantum numbers (since the charge generators commute with the Hamiltonian). So we can always choose a basis for the states such that the basis elements are eigenstates of I^2, I_z. In this particular case, the SU(2) flavor symmetry acts in such a way that the up and down quarks have I_z=+1 and I_z=-1.
 
but how do you know that the eigenstate of Iz are the real u and d quark and not some linear combination of them?
 
Well for one thing, the charge. The u and d quark states are the charge eigenstates. By convention we choose isospin to obey Q = Iz + Y/2 where Y is the hypercharge, a constant for the multiplet and equal to 1/3 for quarks.
 
How does all these follow from qcd lagrangian?
 
LayMuon said:
How does all these follow from qcd lagrangian?

Electric charge and isospin are symmetries of the QCD Lagrangian. Therefore, there are no terms in the QCD Lagrangian that can change those quantum numbers. So if a state is prepared with a given set of charges, these will be conserved.
 
fzero said:
Whenever there is a symmetry of the system, the corresponding charges of the states become good quantum numbers (since the charge generators commute with the Hamiltonian). So we can always choose a basis for the states such that the basis elements are eigenstates of I^2, I_z. In this particular case, the SU(2) flavor symmetry acts in such a way that the up and down quarks have I_z=+1 and I_z=-1.

Am I right on this: the direction of axes in isospin space can be chosen arbitrarily, hence we choose them in such a way as to attribute to u quark the 1/2 eigenvalue of Iz operator and to d quark - the -1/2 eigenvalue; I is the casimir operator for the representation so it gives the indexing of representation.
 
LayMuon said:
Am I right on this: the direction of axes in isospin space can be chosen arbitrarily, hence we choose them in such a way as to attribute to u quark the 1/2 eigenvalue of Iz operator and to d quark - the -1/2 eigenvalue; I is the casimir operator for the representation so it gives the indexing of representation.

This is true if we ignore electric charge. As Bill_K points out, after electroweak symmetry breaking, the physical electric charge depends on the eigenvalue of ##I_z##, so the identification of quarks is actually fixed on us by self-consistency.
 
But isn't it strange that it's fixed? I mean, then how does that happen that eigenstates of Iz are precisely the quarks of electrodynamics interaction and not some linear combination of them? How would that follow from SM lagrangian?
 
Last edited:
  • #10
LayMuon said:
But isn't it strange that it's fixed? I mean, then how does that happen that eigenstates of Iz are precisely the quarks of electrodynamics interaction and not some linear combination of them? How would that follow from SM lagrangian?

Having I_z diagonal is a choice of basis. It's natural to choose it diagonal in the basis of states handed to us by observation. Choosing some other basis would just make things inconvenient, not any more correct.
 

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