Why vector lengths may not be preserved?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which the length of a vector may not be preserved in the context of different metrics. Participants explore the implications of metrics on vector lengths, questioning definitions and examples related to this concept.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for examples of metrics where vector lengths are not preserved.
  • Another participant suggests that a metric could have a scalar that would not preserve length, though this claim is met with skepticism.
  • There is a repeated inquiry about the conditions under which vector lengths are considered preserved.
  • A participant challenges the clarity of the original question, emphasizing that a metric is a type (0,2) tensor and not a scalar.
  • One participant introduces the idea of defining a new metric as a scalar multiple of an existing metric, suggesting that this could affect the expression of lengths.
  • Another participant argues that the concept of length is inherently tied to the existence of a metric, and discusses the implications of having different metrics on the same space.
  • Examples of different metrics, such as the distance between real numbers and the discrete metric, are provided to illustrate non-equivalence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of metrics and vector lengths. There is no consensus on the original question, and multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights ambiguities in the definitions of metrics and their relationship to vector lengths, with some participants questioning the clarity of the original inquiry.

Nusc
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Given some metric, what is an example where the length of a vector is not preserved?
 
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I presume it's because a metric could have a scalar and that would not preserve the length.
 
Nusc said:
Given some metric, what is an example where the length of a vector is not preserved?
Not preserved under what?
 
Your question is rather ill defined. Preserved when exactly?

It is also not clear what you would mean by a ”metric having a scalar”. A metric is a type (0,2) tensor, not a scalar.
 
fresh_42 said:
Not preserved under what?
length
 
Orodruin said:
Your question is rather ill defined. Preserved when exactly?

It is also not clear what you would mean by a ”metric having a scalar”. A metric is a type (0,2) tensor, not a scalar.
if you define a metric g' = k g where k is some scalar function. you can expresss the lengths of a' = g' a_i a_j = k g a_i a_j
 
You need a metric in order to speak of length, not the other way around. If you have two different metrics, they might be equivalent ##g'=k\cdot g##, or not. The question about length is directly coupled to the existence of a metric - one metric. As an example you could consider the distance between two real numbers as ##|x-y|## or look at the discrete metric ##d(x,y)=1## as soon as ##x\neq y##. These are two different, non-equivalent metrics on one space, ##\mathbb{R}## in this case.

So as long as you only have one metric on a vectorspace, you cannot have two lengths.
 
I see. thank you
 

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