News Why Would an Adult Target Kindergarten Students in a Shooting?

[turbo]

Background checks are not going to be useful, until the FBI can incorporate mental-health issues into their database. In any case, the "instant background check" is often anything but instant. The FBI does not have the resources or the information to perform such checks in 30 seconds (their target). If you as a seller have instituted a check, you can transfer the gun after 3 days of non-response from the FBI. That is too long, IMO.

The meanest wrinkle in that law is that the 3-day waiting period doesn't start until the day after the check is requested. So if a legal gun dealer with a federal firearms license and good intentions books a gun sale on Friday night at a gun show, he would have to wait through Saturday, Sunday, and Monday to see if the FBI approved the sale. Good luck getting an out-of state buyer to look you up the week after a gun-show.

 

[OmCheeto]

"Natural Born Killers", a disturbingly violent romp, had in its sub-themes the inner rage of broken kids and the media's sick appetite for violence. No wonder the critics universally hated it - it rubs their industry's nose in their own dung.

Not recommending it, by the way. My socialist stepson, who loved it for the "cinematography"(whatever that is) tells me it sparked some copycat incidents.
It did have a good cast.

old jim

One of my brothers is a cinematography snob. Sees one movie a day, on average. Like your stepson, he apparently doesn't watch movies for the entertainment value. They see only the details, and whine about cliches. I came to this conclusion after listening to the fat* movie critic, malign the latest "Star Trek" movie.

In the meantime, you want space opera, you got it.

I don't remember anyone singing? Does anyone remember singing??
Operas have singing, you stupid, Jabba the notafilmcriticforme...​

His comments were nearly identical to my brother's. I decided that they both watched too many movies, as I thoroughly enjoyed it. I probably see one movie every 5 years, not 1800+, like my brother.

I just read the full plot summary and synopsis of "Natural Born Killers" at IMDB. That one is also scratched from my list.

And in an attempt to keep this on topic, your stepson was apparently correct about copycats.

Ah ha! Litmus test: "He listed the movie as one of his favorites on his blog."

Eek! I did not know this until just now: "The film is based on a screenplay by Quentin Tarantino"

*I could never remember which one was Siskel, and which one was Ebert, so I always referred to him as "the fat one".

 

[OmCheeto]

I find Andrew Tuohy's(the guy who made the videos earlier which I mentioned I liked) background enlightening as to why he is so matter of fact about guns.

He had this to say about video games, and "sick freak kills first-graders" type of people.

What's Really Wrong With Video Games

Violence in video games is often decried as the cause of violence in real life - perhaps it is. I haven't the resources to investigate that fully.

I do play video games pretty often, and I can say that while I've never felt violent urges after playing a video game, I did free climb the stone wall of an ancient temple in the Middle East just like in Uncharted 3. Also just like in Uncharted 3, I was caught by angry guards with AKMs, although unlike the game, they (luckily) did not shoot at me. I cannot confirm rumors of a new game called Uncharted 4: Tuohy's Fortune, but I can say that it would be pretty awesome.
...

The real world is scary. Cats with Hitler mustaches watch you from trees.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/hitlercat-1024x739.jpg
>600 wide. new laptop. sorry.​

...
So it's my opinion that what is truly "dangerous" about video games is that they convince the gamer that they are better than they really are. In the absence of any other input on a person's intelligence, fitness, or character, this may have a severely detrimental effect on that person's view of the world, and their ability to function in it.

----------------------
All humour in this post can be attributed to Andrew.
IMHO, he would make an awesome PF member.
He is not stupid.

 

[jim hardy]

After a half hour of googling, I cannot find evidence that this is true. Do you have a source?

I thought at the time i should have provided a citation.
Will look for it.

The background check was part of the 1993 Brady Bill and i remember those times well.
NRA proposed it as common sense alternative to long "cooling off" periods. They campaigned to get it into the Brady Act.

Here's from FBI website, I'll see if i can find any old NRA atricles.

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns and explosives fall into the wrong hands. It also ensures the timely transfer of firearms to eligible gun buyers.

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms or explosives. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 100 million such checks have been made in the last decade, leading to more than 700,000 denials.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

As i said - i remember the times well.
Gun magazines were full of reports of abusive behavior on part of ATF agents.
If you recall, NRA called them "Jackbooted Thugs" and President Bush Sr publicly renounced his membership.
Here's a writeup from NRA about the times:
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/a...x?s="Firearms+Owners'+Protection+Act"&st=&ps=
disclaimer - the author is neither a relative nor acquaintance, I don't know him.

About 1975 NRA started a lobbying arm, Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA), to clean up the legislative mess and outlandish behavior described in that link. They remain active today.

I'll look for that cite for you. "I Remember it Well" isn't admissible, i know.

old jim

 

[BobG]

Yes, the much maligned NRA came up with the "FBI Background Check" and it is a common sense approach that works.

After a half hour of googling, I cannot find evidence that this is true. Do you have a source?

I don't know that the NRA promoted background checks, but they did endorse other gun control measures. Karl Frederick, President of the NRA, drafted the Uniform Firearms Act of 1934.

Specifically, the law "had three basic elements. The first required that no one carry a concealed handgun in public without a permit from the local police. A permit would be granted only to a “suitable” person with a “proper reason for carrying” a firearm. Second, the law required gun dealers to report to law enforcement every sale of a handgun, in essence creating a registry of small arms. Finally, the law imposed a two-day waiting period on handgun sales."

It's reasonable to assume that, in practice, the suitability of a person was determined by background checks, but I wouldn't guarantee that.

This was right after the repeal of prohibition and the main concern was weapons used by gangsters during the rise of organized crime.

The NRA wasn't too adamant about gun control during the 60's either when http://www.theroot.com/views/fear-black-gun-owner?page=0,0 to protect their neighborhoods from the government (i.e. police).

Actually, the NRA didn't become adamant protectors of the Second Amendment until the 70's and then it was more of a grassroots movement that took NRA leaders by surprise.

 

[turbo]

It's reasonable to assume that, in practice, the suitability of a person was determined by bakcround checks, but I wouldn't guarantee that.

I wouldn't assume that. That long ago, there was no real centralization, so the permits would be doled out by one's local sheriff/deputy. In other words, people that knew you (at least to some extent) and didn't consider your gun-ownership as a threat. If local law-enforcement considered you a potential threat, you wouldn't get a permit. Even today in Maine, you have to go through your county sheriff's department in order to get a concealed-carry permit. There is a hodge-podge of laws and regulations that I can't address, but up here, local law-enforcement has a lot of "say" regarding concealed-carry.

http://www.sunjournal.com/news/city...ry-permits-test-patience-maine-gun-ow/1169487

This is a little taste of the bureaucracy. I would have no trouble getting a CC permit, since I know the 3 ladies of the Select(man)'s board. I don't want a permit because then the Meth-heads and Oxycontin nuts would have some access to information that would lead them to try to invade the house and rob me. I'd rather forego that.

 

[jim hardy]

wow i see why you had trouble.

NRA doesn't toot their own horn much.

The instant background check was suggested by NRA


http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2013/privatesales.aspx

Jan 17,2013
...
Background

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which became operational in 1998, verifies that a person seeking to buy a firearm from a gun dealer is not prohibited from doing so by federal or state law.1 The National Rifle Association supported its establishment.2 Gun control supporters opposed NICS, preferring to require a gun purchaser to wait several days after stating the desire to buy a gun, before receiving it from a firearm dealer.3

...


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-05-09/news/9102110210_1_gun-control-nra-james-brady

WASHINGTON — For the first time since the riots and assassinations of 1968, the House of Representatives on Wednesday passed major gun-control legislation, responding to a growing national frustration with violence in America in the 1990s.

The House voted 239-186 for the so-called Brady Bill, which would require a seven-day waiting period before purchasers could buy a handgun....

...
The NRA put its considerable political clout and huge amounts of money into defeating the bill, including two full-page ads in Wednesday`s Washington Post at a total cost of about $80,000.

Many on Capitol Hill believed the NRA was being unreasonable in fighting so hard against the Brady Bill. The NRA backed an alternative ``instant check`` proposal, sponsored by Rep. Harley Staggers (D-W.Va.) that experts said would take years and millions of dollars to implement.

You can bet NRA-ILA wrote it for Rep Staggers.
Note newspaper's instant dismissal - "experts said it would take years..." NRA gets worse press than Nixon.

The other links describe how the Brady Bill laid too much responsibility on local law enforcement. It required them to do a background check and tell the local dealer whether it was okay to transfer the firearm. That's what the delay was for, let local sheriff do a background check. That part of it was thrown out by the courts as federal power overstepping state , leading to implementation of the NICS instant background check. The links are a bit lengthy .
Perhaps the best thing to take away from them is that NRA is a reasonable outfit who work within the system.


.......

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/f...k-sys.aspx?s="Background+Checks/NICS"&st=&ps=

The 5-day wait ends and Instant Check begins

Before the Brady bill was passed by Congress, it was amended with an NRA-endorsed provision to require that the five-day wait expire in Nov. 1998, at which time a nationwide Instant Check system will be implemented. (NRA supported, but gun control supporters opposed, a nationwide Instant Check proposed in the 101st Congress by Rep. Harley O. Staggers, D-W.Va.)

......

July 16, 1999
The National Instant Check System (NICS) for firearms transactions took effect Nov. 30, 1998, replacing the Brady Act`s five-day waiting period. The following provides answers to some of the most common questions about NICS.

What exactly is NICS?

According to the FBI, NICS "will be a national database containing records of persons who are disqualified from receiving firearms." The NICS computer and analysis center is located in West Virginia, and the FBI is in charge of its operation.
The NICS computerized system is designed to handle most checks in less than 2_ minutes and roughly 150 transactions per minute. It will be open from 9:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. Eastern Time, seven days a week, closed only on Thanksgiving and Christmas. (FBI regulations for the NICS system can be found at http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/index.htm ).

NICS seems to work quite well. I've bought a few little .22 single shot rifles to leave to my grandkids, all through dealers at gunshows with background check. I guess i show up "clean" in their computer because there was no three day wait - dealer said they told him I'm okay..

I hope this helps.

old jim

 

[nsaspook]

Data point on Jack-booted, the NRA and the ATF.

http://www.hkweaponsystems.com/cgi-bin/quote.pl?john_dingell

John D. Dingell
United States Representative
"If I were to select a jack-booted group of fascists who were perhaps as large a danger to American society as I could pick today, I would pick BATF. They are a shame and a disgrace to our country."

-U.S. Congressman John D. Dingell (Democrat from Michigan), 1980


"The consequences of the behavior of the BATF in these kinds of cases is that they are not trusted. They are detested, and I have described them properly as jackbooted American fascists. They have shown no concern over the rights of ordinary citizens or their property. They intrude without the slightest regard or concern. Now, if you want a more recent event, take a look at what they did in Waco, TX. Is that a defensible event? Scores of Americans were killed because of ineptitude by BATF acting under legal process, as they said, and that whole matter is going to be suppressed after scores of Americans have been killed because of the ineptitude and crass misbehavior of the BATF."

-U.S. Congressman John D. Dingell (Democrat from Michigan), February 8, 1995

 

[Evo]

wow i see why you had trouble.

NRA doesn't toot their own horn much.

The instant background check was suggested by NRA

Background

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which became operational in 1998, verifies that a person seeking to buy a firearm from a gun dealer is not prohibited from doing so by federal or state law.1 The National Rifle Association supported its establishment.2

Gee, you think?

Gun control supporters opposed NICS, preferring to require a gun purchaser to wait several days after stating the desire to buy a gun, before receiving it from a firearm dealer.3

Toot their horn for opposing a waiting period to buy a gun? That's a bad thing, no one needs a gun "right now" for any good reason, IMO. Now there is a very poor "instant check" thanks to the NRA, which means that someone is in a rage can go get a gun without a cooling off period and a more thorough check, IMO. I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good thing.

And another thread pulled, once again, completely off topic. All of you, tsk!

As I said previously in this thread

this thread isn't about gun control. Please leave discussions pro or con guns out.