Wick rotation and interference

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    Interference Rotation
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the implications of Wick rotation in quantum mechanics, particularly regarding its ability to reproduce interference patterns observed in experiments like the double slit experiment. Participants explore the mathematical and conceptual aspects of Wick rotation, its validity in certain calculations, and how it relates to transition probabilities and interference.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how Wick rotation, which replaces imaginary exponents with real ones, can reproduce interference patterns, particularly the zero probability at certain screen locations in the double slit experiment.
  • Others argue that while the action in the exponent becomes real, the integral shifts into the imaginary zone, allowing for complex amplitudes to remain and thus preserving interference effects.
  • A participant mentions that Wick rotation is valid for specific calculations, particularly when it can be undone to return to Minkowski space, where oscillatory behavior reappears.
  • One participant references Euclidean Quantum Mechanics, suggesting that it allows for linear superposition of transition probabilities and thus interference, citing relevant papers by Jean-Claude Zambrini.
  • There is a challenge regarding how to transform results back to Minkowski space to recover interference patterns, with some participants noting that Zambrini's work does not adequately address this issue.
  • Another participant asserts that there is indeed room for cancellation in the Euclidean case, countering the original assumption that real exponents do not allow for such effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of Wick rotation for interference patterns. While some believe it can reproduce these effects, others remain skeptical and point out gaps in the existing literature, particularly regarding the transition back to Minkowski space. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the current understanding, including the need for clarity on how to revert from Euclidean calculations to Minkowski results and the assumptions underlying the validity of Wick rotation in this context.

causalset
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In light of the fact that Wick rotation can replace imaginary exponent wtih the real one, how does it reproduce interference? For example, in double slit experiment, how would we reproduce the fact that probability of reaching certain spots on the screen is zero? After all, the exponent of something "real" is always positive, so there is no room for cancelation.
 
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causalset said:
In light of the fact that Wick rotation can replace imaginary exponent wtih the real one, how does it reproduce interference? For example, in double slit experiment, how would we reproduce the fact that probability of reaching certain spots on the screen is zero? After all, the exponent of something "real" is always positive, so there is no room for cancelation.

The replacement is only valid for certain kinds of calculations, namely when you can undo the Wick rotation at the end of your calculation to get back a result in Minkowski space.
Then the oscillatory nature reappears.
 
Don't worry about the rotation will kill the imaginary part...Though the action S in the exponent seems become "real",but the integral interval of time shifts from real zone into imaginary zone, which will guarantee that the amplitude still is complex value instead of a pure real number...Hence,the distribution of the pole in the complex plane will not change after the Wick rotation and it will give the same results.
Wick rotation is just more like a math skill...so a math skill won't offer any new physical facts but give a fresh viewpoint of the equation..
 
Causalset,

Wick rotating the Schroedinger equation and its complex conjugate leads to a theoretical framework called Euclidean Quantum Mechanics, developed by Jean-Claude Zambrini. In this framework, one can have a linear superposition of transition probability solutions to the Wick rotated Schroedinger equations, and hence have interference of transition probabilities. See these papers:

Stochastic mechanics according to E. Schrödinger
Phys. Rev. A 33, 1532–1548 (1986)
http://pra.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v33/i3/p1532_1

Euclidean quantum mechanics
Phys. Rev. A 35, 3631–3649 (1987)
http://pra.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v35/i9/p3631_1

The first paper explicitly gives the formula (equation 4.13, section C) for the interference of transition probabilities under two-slit boundary conditions.
 
Last edited:
A. Neumaier said:
The replacement is only valid for certain kinds of calculations, namely when you can undo the Wick rotation at the end of your calculation to get back a result in Minkowski space.
Then the oscillatory nature reappears.

This doesn't answer the OP's question. The Wick rotation is perfectly valid for wavefunctions used to describe two-slit interference. See the papers I cited.
 
Maaneli said:
This doesn't answer the OP's question. The Wick rotation is perfectly valid for wavefunctions used to describe two-slit interference. See the papers I cited.

But how do you transform equation 4.13, section C back to Minkowski space and recover the interference pattern? Zambrini is apparently silent about this!
 
A. Neumaier said:
But how do you transform equation 4.13, section C back to Minkowski space and recover the interference pattern? Zambrini is apparently silent about this!

This is a different question, and it doesn't invalidate the answer to the OP's question.

Also, Zambrini does actually show how one can transform between the Euclidean and real-time diffusions (the real-time diffusions also properly describe two-slit interference). What one has to do is change the time-symmetric ordering of the stochastic derivatives in the definition of the mean acceleration.
 
Maaneli said:
This is a different question, and it doesn't invalidate the answer to the OP's question.

The question was:
''how would we reproduce the fact that probability of reaching certain spots on the screen is zero? After all, the exponent of something "real" is always positive, so there is no room for cancellation.''
and therefore requires an answer for how you can get back the Minkowski result from the Euclidean calculation. Zambrini is of no help here, it seems.
 
  • #10
A. Neumaier said:
The question was:
''how would we reproduce the fact that probability of reaching certain spots on the screen is zero? After all, the exponent of something "real" is always positive, so there is no room for cancellation.''

I'm point out to the OP that Zambrini shows that, contrary to his assumption that there is no room for cancellation, there is in fact an interference of transition probabilities in the Euclidean case.

A. Neumaier said:
and therefore requires an answer for how you can get back the Minkowski result from the Euclidean calculation. Zambrini is of no help here, it seems.

No. Once again, his question is about how one would reproduce the prediction of interference in the context of a Wick rotated version of QM. If you read the Zambrini paper, you'll see how this is done.
 

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