Work-Energy Theorem in Inertial Reference Frames

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the Work-Energy Theorem in the context of inertial reference frames (IRFs). The original poster is exploring how the work done on a particle by a constant force differs when observed from two different reference frames: one stationary on the ground and the other moving with a train. The questions posed include the equality of work done in both frames, the changes in kinetic energy observed, and whether the Work-Energy Theorem holds true in both scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are discussing the implications of the particle being at rest relative to the train while also moving with respect to the ground. They are questioning how the work done by the force differs in each reference frame and how this affects the observed kinetic energy. There is also a consideration of how the motion of the train influences the perception of work and energy changes.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing insights and clarifications regarding the scenario. Some have offered hints about the relationship between force, momentum, and work, while others are still grappling with the implications of the different reference frames on the work done and kinetic energy changes.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of relative motion and the definitions of work and energy in different frames. There is an acknowledgment of the need to consider how distance moved by the particle is perceived differently in each frame, which may influence the calculations of work done.

Quelsita
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OK, I'm working on a question regarding IRFs, but I seem to be a little confused.

Question:
Observer A is on the ground and Observer B in on a train moving with uniform velocity v wrt the ground. Each observes that a particle of mass m, initially at rest wrt the train, is acted upon by a constant force F applied to it in the forward direction for a time t.
a)What is the work done on the particle by F in referece frame A and B? Are they equal?
b)What are the changes in kinetic energy observed by A and B?
c)Does the Work-energy theorem hold in reference frames of observers A and B?

So, as I understand it, the particle is on the train as it is initially at rest wrt the train (i.e. it is moving with the train). The Force applied in the positive direction indicates that the train has slowed or stopped causing it to jerk forward.

Here is where I get confused, how is the work different for each reference frame? If the train is moving in the +x direction, then the particle is also moving in the +x direction, then does A see the train move in the +x and B see the train move in -x direction?

How does this change kinetic energy?

Thanks!
 
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Quelsita said:
So, as I understand it, the particle is on the train as it is initially at rest wrt the train (i.e. it is moving with the train). The Force applied in the positive direction indicates that the train has slowed or stopped causing it to jerk forward.

No, I don't think that's the situation here. Imagine a food cart resting in the aisle of the train, stationary as seen by observer B on the train, but moving (in the +x direction) as seen by observer A on the ground. A train attendant comes along and pushes the cart down the aisle. Imagine that we can ignore friction, so if the attendant pushes with a constant force, the cart accelerates (in both reference frames).
 
I see your point, that does make sense.

So, the particle is moving wrt to both reference frames, but I'm still stuck on how the different reference frames affect work...
 
Hi Quelsita! :smile:
Quelsita said:
…The Force applied in the positive direction indicates that the train has slowed or stopped causing it to jerk forward.

No … where do you get that from? :confused:
Here is where I get confused, how is the work different for each reference frame? If the train is moving in the +x direction, then the particle is also moving in the +x direction, then does A see the train move in the +x and B see the train move in -x direction

Hint: Force = rate of change of momentum, which you can fairly easily prove is the same for both frames.

But the work done = force x distance moved by the point of application of the force (the particle), which is different for both frames.

How far does the particle move in time t in frame A? and how far in frame B? :smile:
 

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