Zero matrix with non-zero above diagonal

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    Matrix Zero
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that for a specific type of matrix, namely a zero matrix with entries of 1's right above its diagonal, the property $A^k = 0$ and $A^{k-1} \neq 0$ holds. The conversation includes exploration of the implications of matrix powers and the behavior of standard basis vectors under matrix multiplication.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the structure of the matrix and provide examples, such as for $k = 3$, the matrix looks like $\begin{pmatrix} 0 &1 &0\\ 0 &0 &1\\ 0 &0 &0\\ \end{pmatrix}$.
  • It is noted that the standard basis vectors can be used to analyze the effects of the matrix on vectors, with $Ae_1$ resulting in the zero vector, $Ae_2 = e_1$, and $Ae_3 = e_2$.
  • Participants discuss the iterative effect of the matrix on the basis vectors, suggesting that $A^n e_j = e_{j-n}$ unless $j-n \leq 0$, in which case $A^n e_j = 0$.
  • There is a proposal to use induction to prove the behavior of $A^n$ on the basis vectors, particularly focusing on the cases for $n = k-1$ and $n = k$.
  • Some participants express confusion about how to formally conclude that $A^k = 0$ while $A^{k-1} \neq 0$, seeking clarification on the reasoning process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the behavior of the matrix with respect to the standard basis vectors and the iterative process of applying the matrix. However, there is some uncertainty and confusion regarding the formal proof of the properties $A^k = 0$ and $A^{k-1} \neq 0$, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the properties of matrix multiplication and the behavior of specific matrix forms, but these assumptions have not been rigorously proven within the thread.

rputra
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I am working on this problem which has been baffling me since the beginning: Prove that $A^k = 0$ and $A^{k-1} \neq 0$ if $A_{k \times k}$ is a zero matrix but with entries of 1's right above its diagonal. For example, if $k = 3$ the it will look like this

$$\begin{pmatrix}
0 &1 &0\\
0 &0 &1\\
0 &0 &0\\
\end{pmatrix},$$

with small diagonal of 1's slanted parallel to the main diagonal. The hint I have been getting suggests me to use standard basis vectors. For example, in the case of $k = 3$, we have $e_1 = (1,0,0), \ e_2 = (0,1,0), \ e_3 = (0,0,1)$. Then I need to find out what are $Ae_1, \ Ae_2, \ Ae_3$, etc. After that I have to continue with $A^2 e_1, \ A^2 e_2, \ A^2 e_3,$ etc. But even with these hints, I am still confused. Any help or guidance will be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help and effort.
 
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Tarrant said:
I am working on this problem which has been baffling me since the beginning: Prove that $A^k = 0$ and $A^{k-1} \neq 0$ if $A_{k \times k}$ is a zero matrix but with entries of 1's right above its diagonal. For example, if $k = 3$ the it will look like this

$$\begin{pmatrix}
0 &1 &0\\
0 &0 &1\\
0 &0 &0\\
\end{pmatrix},$$

with small diagonal of 1's slanted parallel to the main diagonal. The hint I have been getting suggests me to use standard basis vectors. For example, in the case of $k = 3$, we have $e_1 = (1,0,0), \ e_2 = (0,1,0), \ e_3 = (0,0,1)$. Then I need to find out what are $Ae_1, \ Ae_2, \ Ae_3$, etc. After that I have to continue with $A^2 e_1, \ A^2 e_2, \ A^2 e_3,$ etc. But even with these hints, I am still confused. Any help or guidance will be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help and effort.
The standard basis has the property that for any $k\times k$ matrix $A$, the vectors $Ae_1,\,Ae_2,\ldots,Ae_k$ are given by the columns of $A$. So for example in the case of the matrix $\begin{bmatrix} 0 &1 &0\\ 0 &0 &1\\ 0 &0 &0\\ \end{bmatrix},$ you can see that $Ae_1$ is the left column of $A$ which is the zero vector. The second column of $A$ tells you that $Ae_2 = e_1$, and the third column tells you that $Ae_3 = e_2.$

Using that information, you can then see what happens to higher powers of $A$. For example, $A^2e_2 = A(Ae_2) = Ae_1 = 0.$
 
Opalg said:
The standard basis has the property that for any $k\times k$ matrix $A$, the vectors $Ae_1,\,Ae_2,\ldots,Ae_k$ are given by the columns of $A$. So for example in the case of the matrix $\begin{bmatrix} 0 &1 &0\\ 0 &0 &1\\ 0 &0 &0\\ \end{bmatrix},$ you can see that $Ae_1$ is the left column of $A$ which is the zero vector. The second column of $A$ tells you that $Ae_2 = e_1$, and the third column tells you that $Ae_3 = e_2.$

Using that information, you can then see what happens to higher powers of $A$. For example, $A^2e_2 = A(Ae_2) = Ae_1 = 0.$

Thank you! I did note the properties you mentioned above, however, the big question is: How do you use the properties to arrive at the conclusion that $A^k = 0$ while $A^{k-1} \neq 0$? Thanks again and again, I am sincerely looking forward to hear from you again.
 
Tarrant said:
The big question is: How do you use the properties to arrive at the conclusion that $A^k = 0$ while $A^{k-1} \neq 0$? Thanks again and again, I am sincerely looking forward to hear from you again.
The effect of $A$ on the basis vector $e_j$ is that $Ae_j= e_{j-1}$ except when $j=1$, in which case $Ae_1=0.$ When you iterate $A$ $n$ times, you find that $A^ne_j = e_{j-n}$ unless $j-n\leqslant0$, in which case $A^ne_j = 0$. (To prove that carefully, you'll probably have to use induction on $n$.)

Now putting $n=k-1$ you see that $A^{k-1}e_k = e_1 \ne0$, so that $A^{k-1} \neq 0$. However, when you put $n=k$ you find that $j-k\leqslant0$, and hence $A^ke_j = 0$, for all $j$. Thus $A^k$ takes all the basis vectors to zero, which means that $A^k=0.$
 
Opalg said:
The effect of $A$ on the basis vector $e_j$ is that $Ae_j= e_{j-1}$ except when $j=1$, in which case $Ae_1=0.$ When you iterate $A$ $n$ times, you find that $A^ne_j = e_{j-n}$ unless $j-n\leqslant0$, in which case $A^ne_j = 0$. (To prove that carefully, you'll probably have to use induction on $n$.)

Now putting $n=k-1$ you see that $A^{k-1}e_k = e_1 \ne0$, so that $A^{k-1} \neq 0$. However, when you put $n=k$ you find that $j-k\leqslant0$, and hence $A^ke_j = 0$, for all $j$. Thus $A^k$ takes all the basis vectors to zero, which means that $A^k=0.$

Thanks again! I think I should have posted this problem earlier, I have been struggling with this problem for days. This form has been useful for me, I am all for it! Thank you again.
 

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