Zero momentum reference frame and an inelastic collision

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around an inelastic collision involving two carts, each with a mass of 2 kg. The original poster describes the initial velocities of the carts and the energy released during the collision. They have previously calculated the zero momentum reference frame and the velocities of the carts within that frame, seeking to determine the final velocities of the carts post-collision.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between momentum and kinetic energy in the context of inelastic collisions. There is a focus on combining equations related to momentum and kinetic energy, with some participants expressing confusion about how to apply these concepts given the inelastic nature of the collision.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided their calculations and expressed uncertainty about their approaches. There is an ongoing exchange of ideas, with requests for clarification on the original poster's work and suggestions for improving the presentation of their calculations. No consensus has been reached regarding the next steps or the correct approach to solve the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the collision, indicating that it is not a completely inelastic collision, which adds to the difficulty in determining the final velocities. There are also mentions of formatting issues in the calculations that could hinder understanding.

Cutetys
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Homework Statement


In my reference frame, I see two carts collide. Both cart A and Cart B have a mass of 2 kg. Cart A has initial velocity v= 3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat, cart B has initial velocity v= 3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat. 12 J are released in the collision.

In previous parts of this question I found:
The velocity of the zero momentum reference frame relative to me is: 3 m/s I-hat +3 m/s j-hat.
And the two velocities of the carts in the zero momentum reference frame are: Cart A = 0 m/s I-hat - 1 m/s j-hat, Cart B = 0 m/s I-hat + 1 m/s j-hat.

Q: Determine the final velocity of the two carts relative to the zero momentum reference frame.

Homework Equations


ΔK= Kf - Ki
K= 1/2*m*v2
m*v1i + m*v2i = m*v1f + m*v2i
vAo=vAB + vBo maybe?

The Attempt at a Solution


So I know change in ΔK is involved as that it is given in the the question and it isn’t relevant for any questions to follow. I’ve tried combining the momentum and kinetic energy equations but that proved to be useless. (EDIT: I did not originally show my work for this. Sorry about that, here it is :
va= 32 m/s i-hat + 22 m/s j-hat = √13 m/s
vb= 32 m/s I-hat + 42 m/s j-hat = √25 m/s
-12 J = Kf - (1/2*2kg(√(25m/s)2 + (√13m/s)2)
-12 = v1f + v2f - 38 J
26 J - v2f = v1f
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (v1f + v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (26 J - v2f) + 2 kg(v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 52 kg*J - 2 kg(v2f) + 2 kg(v2f))

I know how to attempt this question if the collision were elastic (v12i = -v12f) but as this collision is inelastic I haven’t found a way to use it.This collision does not appear to be totally inelastic either so I cannot find the velocities through that route.

At this point I have no clue what to try next and I really could use an idea to bounce off of. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
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Cutetys said:
I’ve tried combining the momentum and kinetic energy equations but that proved to be useless.
That should be the way. please post your working.
 
haruspex said:
That should be the way. please post your working.

Sorry bout that, here’s my work:
va= 3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat = 13^1\2 m/s
vb= 3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat = 25^1/2 m/s
-12 J = Kf - (1/2*2((25^1\2)^2 + (13^1/2)*2)
-12 = v1f + v2f - 38 J
26 J - v2f = v1f
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (v1f + v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (26 J - v2f) + 2 kg(v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 52 kg*J - 2 kg(v2f) + 2 kg(v2f)

And that’s where I come to to a problem. - 2 kg(v2f) + 2 kg(v2f) = 0, so from this equation I can not find v2f or v1f.
 
Cutetys said:
3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat = 13^1\2 m/s
I assume you mean the magnitude of that vector is √13.
Cutetys said:
-12 = v1f + v2f - 38 J
v1f and v2f are not energies.

Your work would be much easier to read if you were to use the subscript and superscript buttons (X2, X2). Better still, LaTeX.
 
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haruspex said:
I assume you mean the magnitude of that vector is √13.

v1f and v2f are not energies.

Your work would be much easier to read if you were to use the subscript and superscript buttons (X2, X2). Better still, LaTeX.

Sorry, I'm new to the forum so I didn't realize those option were there. I've edited my original post so hopefully it's easier to read.
You are also correct, I meant the magnitude of the vector. I also edited it to make that more clear.
These edits probably don't matter too much as I think I know where I'm going wrong now. Thank you so much!
 

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