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-   -   < Infinity > (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=3763)

Moni Jul10-03 12:52 PM

< Infinity >
 
In many articles I have found that : Universe is (in time & space) infinite.................................

But I don't understand what is the law or formula behind this ???

Can anybody explain it further ???

quantum Jul10-03 02:07 PM

That's just the thing, there is really no formula behind whether or not the universe is infinite... It's all simply speculation. However, there are many modern cosmological readings that strongly suggest the universe is infinite because it so well satisfies certain theories...

The Grimmus Jul11-03 12:19 AM

it isent infinte as i under stand it it is constanly exspanding so

hey how do they even know that infitey exist have they ever counted to it?

Moni Jul11-03 01:02 PM

Yes! I wanted to know how they are so sure about it's infinitiness ???

subtillioN Jul11-03 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moni
Yes! I wanted to know how they are so sure about it's infinitiness ???
The question is how can it NOT be infinite?

Mr. Robin Parsons Jul11-03 04:01 PM

First, I would respectfully suggest, you know what it means, "infinity" hence, I would suggest you read the *link* at the Fourth post down, (My posting) and then you/we can discuss it better(?)

EDIT *LINK*

subtillioN Jul11-03 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
First, I would respectfully suggest, you know what it means, "infinity" hence, I would suggest you read the link at the Fourth post down, (My posting) and then you/we can discuss it better(?)
Ok so let's discuss it.

Mr. Robin Parsons Jul12-03 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by subtillioN
Ok so let's discuss it.
If I assume you have read it then you should ralize that it is not a concept that anyone can think of, hence a formula for infinity is impossible.

The only thing that is left, by that posting I made, is admittance to Belief, you either belive in an infinity, or you don't, but it cannot be proven out, not one way, nor the other.

Hows that?

subtillioN Jul12-03 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
If I assume you have read it then you should ralize that it is not a concept that anyone can think of, hence a formula for infinity is impossible.
So you are saying that because we can't calculate to infinity then it cannot exist? Do you consider that a proof?

I find thinking of infinity quite easy. I just can't fit it completely inside my mind, but so what? There are MANY complex phenomena that I cannot imagine in their entirety.

Quote:

The only thing that is left, by that posting I made, is admittance to Belief, you either belive in an infinity, or you don't, but it cannot be proven out, not one way, nor the other.
Ok, but it requires an extra assumption that space suddenly stops and is therefore finite.

Quote:

Hows that?
Needs a bit of work.

Hurkyl Jul12-03 02:56 PM

Quote:

Ok, but it requires an extra assumption that space suddenly stops and is therefore finite.
It doesn't require a sudden stop to be finite.

subtillioN Jul12-03 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hurkyl
It doesn't require a sudden stop to be finite.
oh yeah the curved space thing... another hyper-pathetical

Mr. Robin Parsons Jul13-03 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by subtillioN
So you are saying that because we can't calculate to infinity then it cannot exist? Do you consider that a proof? No, not a "proof" but you cannot prove, noor disprove it.

I find thinking of infinity quite easy. I just can't fit it completely inside my mind, but so what? There are MANY complex phenomena that I cannot imagine in their entirety.
Well apparently you are willing to decieve yourself, as if it is NOT a thought, then no one can 'think' of it, partially or in it's entirey.

No delineations, NO boundaries, NO edges, No appearance of space, NO visuals, ergo, No Conceptualization available.

subtillioN Jul13-03 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
[B]Well apparently you are willing to decieve yourself, as if it is NOT a thought, then no one can 'think' of it, partially or in it's entirey.
You can think of it logically. Infinity simply has no edges or boundaries.

Quote:

No delineations, NO boundaries, NO edges, No appearance of space, NO visuals, ergo, No Conceptualization available.
non sequiter

Just because a substance has no ultimate boundaries does not mean it has no internal structure.

Mr. Robin Parsons Jul13-03 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by subtillioN
You can think of it logically. Infinity simply has no edges or boundaries.
Just because a substance has no ultimate boundaries does not mean it has no internal structure. HOGWASH!
As I stated, just because you are willing to decieve yourself, doesn't mean you got it right.

Al thoughts are bounded, ergo you cannot have an unbounded thought, but you can fool yourself into thinkng that you have had one.

subtillioN Jul13-03 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
[B]As I stated, just because you are willing to decieve yourself, doesn't mean you got it right.
Just because you can state that I am decieving my self does not mean that I actually am.

Care to explain how you wash the hog?

Quote:

Al thoughts are bounded, ergo you cannot have an unbounded thought, but you can fool yourself into thinkng that you have had one.
I never said that I could have an unbounded thought. The mind is certainly finite. That is why the imagination is useless to understand infinity. Infinity must be understood through logic not imagination.

If I say Infinity has no boundaries, I have said a true statement about infinity. Do you suppose that this statement must be infinite?

To understand something you need not replicate it in your mind. The mind is capable of generalization and abstraction.

Hurkyl Jul13-03 11:15 AM

I am with subtillioN that you can certainly think logically about infinity...

but I'm at odds with his definition; infinity is typically used in contexts where we may (at least sometimes) ascribe quantities to entities in question, such as sizes of sets, lengths, or volumes. We use infinte/infinity when either we have "transfinite" numbers which are larger than any real number (such as the case of sizes of sets), or when there is no upper bound to the quantities in question (such as distances in the euclidean plane)

subtillioN is thinking in a context where "no edges or boundries" is a sufficient condition for there to be no upper bound on distances or volumes, but that is not in general a sufficient condition.

subtillioN Jul13-03 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hurkyl
but I'm at odds with his definition; infinity is typically used in contexts where we may (at least sometimes) ascribe quantities to entities in question, such as sizes of sets, lengths, or volumes. We use infinte/infinity when either we have "transfinite" numbers which are larger than any real number (such as the case of sizes of sets), or when there is no upper bound to the quantities in question (such as distances in the euclidean plane)
In mathematics there can be infinities of different magnitude. That is because they are dealing with the indefinite division of continuity.

I do not consider this to be infinity proper, but the transfinite.

True infinity can have no magnitude.

Mr. Robin Parsons Jul13-03 11:32 AM

It becomes the paradox of presentation of the universe, inasmuch as you can count things in the first place, because, if you were truly observing, or thinking, of the infinite, you would have nothing in your head, absolutely nothing, ergo not even the beginning of counting anything!

Think of it in the sense of looking at the surface of a perfectly lit/illuminated sphere all at once, the entire surface, observant thinkers will realize that visually you can see nothing because unless the surface of the sphere is lit in an asymetrical manner, all you will "see" is 'flat space' with nothing to distinguish anything from anything else.

Infinite is NOT a concept in your head, it cannot be, because, your imagination is limited, as well as is your thinking ability. (other then the typicono'graphic that is the word itself)

To be human is to experiance these limitations.

That you seem to wish to refuse to accept them, little I can do about that one.

In an infinite system you cannot even begin to count, as there is not one thing that is distinguished. (Neither beginning, nor end)

(Yes, I know, sounds contradictory, but in the complete understanding of the universes construction it ends up making sense......go Figure!)


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