Best way to produce 1 million volts dc

[reddevil2576]

I'm wanting to build a dc power source of 1 million volts more would be nice but ill start with a million and work my way up from there. Any suggestions would be helpufull. Is it possible to build a 1 million volt capacitor or should i build a capacitor bank to smooth out the ac current after its rectified or do you have a better suggestion for me. I'm wanting to build a coil gun with 1 million volts and not have to wait for capacitors to charge all the time just want to have a high voltage supply and fire it whenever. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bob S]

There are two basic methods to get 1 million volts DC. One way is to use the Van de Graaff approach with a moving belt. An example of this are the Emporer tandems (made by High Voltage Engineering), which have exceeded 10 million volts terminal voltage. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Graaff_generator
The other way is to use the Cockroft-Walton (or Marx generator) approach with a stack of high voltage diodes and capacitors for voltage multiplication. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockcroft-Walton_generator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx_generator

 

[reddevil2576]

i don't know much about those I'm looking for a constant dc power supply though not something i have to wait to charge back up or anything just something that's always there.

 

[waht]

i don't know much about those I'm looking for a constant dc power supply though not something i have to wait to charge back up or anything just something that's always there.

It's not a good idea to work with high voltage if you don't know much about it, let alone work with 1 million volts.

A rule of thumb is 10,000 volts per 1 cm of spark. At 1 million volts you will get 1 meter long sparks shooting around.

Also, regardless what way you will generate high voltage, there will always be some capacitance involved. From basic physics, the energy stored in a capacitor is proportional to voltage squared. At 1 million volts, even a relatively small internal capacitance can unload a lethal charge.

 

[Bob S]

Here is a rather simple way to produce a high voltage, but not 1 million volts.

1) Assemble a parallel plate capacitor in a tank with ultra pure water as dielectric.
2) Charge up the plate to a high voltage.
3) Drain out the water.

This produces a very high voltage by decreasing the dielectric constant of the charged capacitor by a factor of about 80.

 

[bassplayer142]

Wouldn't you be drawing a ridiculous amount of power to achieve this. I would think a steady 1 million volts ps would require more then an average wall output.

 

[reddevil2576]

i don't know but that's what i need to do check out my other one talking about superconductors and high voltage it talks about what i want to do down in a reply i left. i have an idea to change the world I'm going to build it but i need your guys help to get it done. i don't care what power it takes or what i have to do to do it I am going to do it. if you have any ideas it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dlgoff]

Not 1MV but they look neat. One clames to be 50KV at 5ma.
http://www.amazing1.com/hv-dc-power-supplies.htm"

 

[Bob S]

I have an old (40 years?) Mark Ten B CD (capacitor discharge) igniton system that can generate roughly 30 kV from less than 1 amp at 12 volts. This circuit charges a capacitor to about 300 to 400 volts using a dc-dc converter, and dumps it into the primary of a 12-volt automotive ignition coil when an electronic switch is triggered. I get 2 cm sparks (2.5 on a good day) out of it. For spark voltages over 100 kV, I think a Tesla coil would be good choice. I had a high school classmate who built a small one (about 1 meter high) for a class project (with the teacher's help).

 

[Phrak]

I seem to recall that air at STP can withstand about 30KV per centimeter. One million volts would require a smooth conducting ball of two foot diameter to be charged to 1MV without arcing to infinity.

 

[berkeman]

I'm wanting to build a dc power source of 1 million volts more would be nice but ill start with a million and work my way up from there. Any suggestions would be helpufull. Is it possible to build a 1 million volt capacitor or should i build a capacitor bank to smooth out the ac current after its rectified or do you have a better suggestion for me. I'm wanting to build a coil gun with 1 million volts and not have to wait for capacitors to charge all the time just want to have a high voltage supply and fire it whenever. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

What'cha plannin' on shooting this coil gan at?

 

[reddevil2576]

i'm not planning on shooting any coil gun well maybe one or two just for fun. What I'm wanting to do with it though is i have an idea for a propulsion system using this. i talk about it in my other post of superconductors and high voltage

 

[TheAnalogKid83]

Here is a rather simple way to produce a high voltage, but not 1 million volts.

1) Assemble a parallel plate capacitor in a tank with ultra pure water as dielectric.
2) Charge up the plate to a high voltage.
3) Drain out the water.

This produces a very high voltage by decreasing the dielectric constant of the charged capacitor by a factor of about 80.

Are you in essence storing the potential energy that the water had from gravity into additional energy per a charge as your dielectric changes from water to air?

 

[skeptic2]

Go fly a kite in a thunderstorm.

 

[DrZoidberg]

1 million volts is way too much for a coil gun except maybe if that coil gun is as big as a house.
You only need a few thousand volts. You can build a power supply from a tv flyback transformer.

 

[Topher925]

Put 250 of http://www.theneonstore.com/p-932-4k-ventex-12-vdc-neon-power-supply.aspx" in series.

 

[Newtype]

Is there any way to increase the current of a Cockroft-Walton generator by adding tunnel diodes? I heard from someone years ago that a tunnel diode can increase current.

 

[skeptic2]

Is there any way to increase the current of a Cockroft-Walton generator by adding tunnel diodes? I heard from someone years ago that a tunnel diode can increase current.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode

 

[reddevil2576]

I need the coils to have 1 million volts. I need a really powerful coil gun. But its not to shoot a projectile I want to but it on an aluminum ring with iron bolted to it in certain spots and make it spin as fast as I can. Will it eventually make it spin as fast as the magnetic field is generated. Thats why I want a steady supply and not something that you have to charge for one firing. I think a tesla coil might work can you wire that up to something. My idea is to use superconducting wire for the coils and some thick Mylar insulation. Go to superconductors.com and type 2 superconductors and check out the top one. Supposedly its superconducting at -40 degrees Fahrenheit. And put 1 million volts through those.

 

[RonL]

I need the coils to have 1 million volts. I need a really powerful coil gun. But its not to shoot a projectile I want to but it on an aluminum ring with iron bolted to it in certain spots and make it spin as fast as I can. Will it eventually make it spin as fast as the magnetic field is generated. Thats why I want a steady supply and not something that you have to charge for one firing. I think a tesla coil might work can you wire that up to something. My idea is to use superconducting wire for the coils and some thick Mylar insulation. Go to superconductors.com and type 2 superconductors and check out the top one. Supposedly its superconducting at -40 degrees Fahrenheit. And put 1 million volts through those.

Don't know if this will help, but if you have a little time to look at the patents of a man that contributed so much in the early days, there is lots of mind stimulating drawings and wording in the body of his patents.

http://issuu.com/ericm814/docs/complete_patents_nikola_tesla

 

[DrZoidberg]

So basically you want to build an electric motor that spins really fast.
Trust me, you don't need 1 million volts for that. You could even do it with just 12 V.
You don't need superconductors either.
What you need however are good bearings and the ring needs to be perfectly centered.
Why don't you just buy a motor and attach the ring to it?

 

[Phrak]

Alternatively, to generate 1MV, arrange to have 120 people in a large circle, on a dry day, each with a rubber comb.

 

[reddevil2576]

Well I need powerful electromagnets as powerful as i can get for my idea to work. I want the million volts I don't want to drop the power. I'm going to have 3 coils spinning the ring and 1 acting against that. And I need the force of the ring to overpower that one coil. maybe have to have another coil on so it passes through it. And exerts force on the electromagnet that is going against it as it goes through but if it does lower the speed of the other rings I need the other coils strong enough to spin it up to its top speed as fast as they can. Do you think its possible to get 1/4 of lightspeed out of this ring?

 

[RonL]

Well I need powerful electromagnets as powerful as i can get for my idea to work. I want the million volts I don't want to drop the power. I'm going to have 3 coils spinning the ring and 1 acting against that. And I need the force of the ring to overpower that one coil. maybe have to have another coil on so it passes through it. And exerts force on the electromagnet that is going against it as it goes through but if it does lower the speed of the other rings I need the other coils strong enough to spin it up to its top speed as fast as they can. Do you think its possible to get 1/4 of lightspeed out of this ring?

I think you need to get a grasp of just how fast 1/4 lightspeed is. An electron will move about 3" in one nano second.(1 Billionth of a second)
Now go to a good source on spinning things, such as flywheels and motor armatures and study about how many RPM they can spin before flying to pieces (keep in mind that the hotter they get, the quicker they fly apart).

Just hope I didn't misunderstand your thoughts on what's spinning.

Ron

 

[reddevil2576]

No I understand and I'm well aware of that hopefully the engine stays together. But its just going to be a metal ring that's spinning that's the only moving part period. It isn't like an engine where the pistons are reciprocating. A rotary engine only spins one direction and it can handle a lot of rpms but I'm only going to have one moving piece hopefully it works.

 

[RonL]

No I understand and I'm well aware of that hopefully the engine stays together. But its just going to be a metal ring that's spinning that's the only moving part period. It isn't like an engine where the pistons are reciprocating. A rotary engine only spins one direction and it can handle a lot of rpms but I'm only going to have one moving piece hopefully it works.

Well best wishes and be carefull

I would like to share an event with you, something I did in my younger days, (lucky to be alive today) I had cleaned a ball bearing with solvent and was using compressed air to blow it dry, not knowing or thinking, I started to spin it with the air pressure and just before it flew in all directions, there was a distortion of the outer ring that was plain to see.
I have never calculated what the speed might have been, it was about 2" OD, the air pressure was about 110 PSI, the memory and sound of steel balls hitting things all around the shop, will never fade.

As Astronuc stated in another thread, "street smart" can be good. Sometime it can come at a high price.

Ron

 

[DrZoidberg]

Do you think its possible to get 1/4 of lightspeed out of this ring?

If you spin a metal ring up to 1/4th the speed of light, it's kinetic energy would be about as high as the energy of a nuclear bomb.
Even if you only have one moving part the ring will probably rip itself apart at the speed of sound which is 1 million times slower then the speed of light.
What do you want to build anyway? A time machine? A free energy machine?
In any case, you need to brush up your knowledge of physics first.
Accelerating a metal ring to 1/4th the speed of light is not even remotely doable with current technology.
You could however use 1 million volts to bring subatomic particles close to the speed of light. That's called a particle accelerator.

 

[Phrak]

Somewhere in the distant past (1950s) Sci Am had an article on spinning up bits of metal, somewhat smaller than a pinhead, suspended in a magnetic field. In a good vacuum one should be able to feed it enough alternating field until it disintigrates...

In a not-so-good vacuum you could rather watch it vaporize.

 

[reddevil2576]

What I am trying to do is create linear force from centrifugal force. everyone says its impossible to me on here but if you got that right spinning fast enough and had a strong electromagnet on one side of the ring that could lift like 25,000 pounds and yet the ring wouldn't slow down cause it had so much force and if i had 3 of them in a triangle object get it to hover and do all the maneuvers of a ufo and I don't think it would have a top speed if you manage to get the ship to light speed really big if there the right would be moving the speed of the ship and the speed of the ring spinning where the electromagnet to get lift would be it would always be faster than u and able to accelerate you faster I believe.

 

[RonL]

What I am trying to do is create linear force from centrifugal force. everyone says its impossible to me on here but if you got that right spinning fast enough and had a strong electromagnet on one side of the ring that could lift like 25,000 pounds and yet the ring wouldn't slow down cause it had so much force and if i had 3 of them in a triangle object get it to hover and do all the maneuvers of a ufo and I don't think it would have a top speed if you manage to get the ship to light speed really big if there the right would be moving the speed of the ship and the speed of the ring spinning where the electromagnet to get lift would be it would always be faster than u and able to accelerate you faster I believe.

Think I hear a clicking sound, Oops it might be a lock.

 

[TheAnalogKid83]

What I am trying to do is create linear force from centrifugal force. everyone says its impossible to me on here but if you got that right spinning fast enough and had a strong electromagnet on one side of the ring that could lift like 25,000 pounds and yet the ring wouldn't slow down cause it had so much force and if i had 3 of them in a triangle object get it to hover and do all the maneuvers of a ufo and I don't think it would have a top speed if you manage to get the ship to light speed really big if there the right would be moving the speed of the ship and the speed of the ring spinning where the electromagnet to get lift would be it would always be faster than u and able to accelerate you faster I believe.

troll?

 

[Topher925]

troll?

Either that or a youngster with a wild imagination.

 

[DrZoidberg]

reddevil - It's great that you try to invent stuff. However you really need to study some more physics. Otherwise you will have a hard time deciding which of your ideas have a chance to work and which don't.
Think about it. You are trying to build a UFO that uses metal rings that spin at 1/4th lightspeed. Do you really think you can approach a project like that with only some very rudimentary physics knowledge?

 

[reddevil2576]

Yeah I think I can. I'm going to start looking into physics though it will help me with my situation like you say. But that will only help me with getting the right mathematical equations that I will need to know how big of coils to build and this kind of thing. I think its possible you get that ring spinning fast enough to where an electromagnet that can lift 25,000 pounds acts like a break on the left side of the ring if the ring is spinning clockwise can't stop the ring from spinning you will get lift out of it the downwards force that is felt from the equal and opposite reaction will go into the motion of the ring in the form of braking but it won't be strong enough to "brake" it so to speak but you will still get the 25,000 pounds of lift provided by the electromagnetic coil. If it works I don't think you will have a top speed the ring would always be spinning way faster than the ship is moving where the force is directed on the coil. The reason I want to use 1 million volts and superconductors for the coils is how strong the electromagnet will be cause like you said I don't know much about physics and I don't know what I need to make an electromagnet strong enough to accomplish this. My real problem is going to be the electronics in this thing to turn the coils on and off I've thought about using a solid iron ring instead and using 4 smaller electromagnets just to keep the iron ring in position so I can use rail guns to spin the object and to do the "braking" while not having the wear from the rail guns since the electromagnets will keep the ring in place but i don't know much about rail guns so i don't know if that will work.

 

[TurtleMeister]

It sounds like you're trying to build a reactionless drive. You do know that such a device would violate the conservation of momentum don't you? And is thus considered impossible by most scientists.

 

[reddevil2576]

I don't think this is a reactionless drive a reactionless drive would use a hypothetical form of thrust that doesn't require any outside force to produce linear force. It has a outside force which is going to come from the spinning ring and the coil acting like a brake. But its all contained you never run out of fuel and you will never have a top speed I don't think. I think the only thing you can adjust on the vehicle will be the acceleration you create. But that's ok that means you will be able to use acceleration as artificial gravity and if there's no top speed we can find out what happens when you break light speed and get to other solar systems very fast and all that good stuff. I'm waiting for a job right now but after I get the one I've applied for I plan on building a little one first to see if the idea works I've got a pretty good idea were to start.

 

[TurtleMeister]

I don't think this is a reactionless drive a reactionless drive would use a hypothetical form of thrust that doesn't require any outside force to produce linear force.

No. A reactionless drive would produce propulsion without the expulsion of a reaction mass. A rocket for example produces propulsion by expelling it's fuel at high velocity. If your device were operating in a vacuum, what would be the reaction mass?

It has a outside force which is going to come from the spinning ring and the coil acting like a brake. But its all contained you never run out of fuel and you will never have a top speed I don't think.

How can the ring provide an outside force when it is contained within the vehicle? You might as well try to pick yourself up off the ground by reaching down and pulling up on your feet. There is no magic in a spinning wheel that's going to do that for you, no matter how fast it's spinning.

I'm going to start looking into physics though it will help me with my situation like you say.

Yes, I agree it will help you discover your misconceptions.

 

[reddevil2576]

The definition of a working mass is a mass against which a system works to create acceleration. That mass is the ring that is spun to very high speeds. And your wrong that's not what it means look up the definition of reaction less drive how could this be a reaction less you spin the ring to very high speeds and the reaction is when the 4th coil turns on the other ones will be off maybe the right one on as well to keep the bat centered while it acts like a brake. turn the one on the top or bottom off to get left and right movement very slow though. The only thing I would consider a reaction less drive is nothing there will always be a reaction otherwise you would feel no force and with any acceleration you feel a force.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So you use the coil to create a force at the rim of the ring. But if you do that there will be an opposite force at the center of the ring. The forces will cancel each other out so there will be no thrust at all.
And why does it need to be a coil? Can't you just use a simple mechanical brake instead?

 

[TurtleMeister]

The definition of a working mass is a mass against which a system works to create acceleration. That mass is the ring that is spun to very high speeds.

You are incorrectly thinking that you can transfer the energy of a spinning wheel into linear propulsion for your device. In the vacuum of space your device would be an isolated system. Unless it propels matter or is acted on by an external force it can go nowhere. Applying braking to the spinning ring would only cause your device to spin, as the angular momentum of the spinning ring would be transferred to the angular momentum of the body of the device. Switching your braking on and off will not change this.

And your wrong that's not what it means look up the definition of reaction less drive how

I did. Here is one from Wikipedia:

A reactionless drive or inertial propulsion engine (also reactionless thruster, reactionless engine, and inertia drive) is any form of propulsion not based around expulsion of fuel or reaction mass.

Your ring does not qualify as an expulsion mass because it remains attached to the device, and it does not expel matter. So your device is a reactionless drive.

I'm an open minded person and I don't mind entertaining such ideas. Even NASA has funded projects for spacecraft propulsion which would require breakthroughs in physics before they could be realized. But I'm not sure the rules of this forum allow for it. So I will make this my last post in this thread. I just thought you should be aware of what you're up against - the conservation of momentum. Have fun working on your machine. And be careful. 1 million volts could be potentially dangerous. :)

 

[reddevil2576]

Yeah right there won't be a completely linear force it will be angular or whatever that's why I will need 3 of them evenly spaced around a ufo shaped craft on the edges so the angular force will all be working in the upwards direction in separate directions but it will act like a linear force with the movement of the craft. and while your in space if it does act like that that will be even better then you won't have to worry about having enough spin out of the ring to get so much lift I was thinking about that. But then I would have to have the coil on the left and the coil on the right to be on at the same time and the top and bottom ones be on when there not so that the ring won't stop when it goes through the coil on the left because the coil on the right will exhibit the same force as the left so the ring will continue to spin but it will still have the upwards force on the ship.

 

[reddevil2576]

My original post isn't about that though its the threads that talk about that I was just letting you know what I needed the original info for.

 

[reddevil2576]

So does anyone have any good ideas on how to get a constant dc power supply not something that has to charge then discharge.

 

[AdamK9]

Put 250 of http://www.theneonstore.com/p-932-4k-ventex-12-vdc-neon-power-supply.aspx" in series.

If you did that then you would be exposing every transformer to 1MV which I am quite certain their insulation can't handle

You could make a large tesla coil with a large homemade diode, or many seriesed diodes on the secondary

 

[Relay]

If you want a constant High Voltage DC source try a voltage multipier. This circuit uses diodes and capacitors driven by AC to create the High Voltage DC. You also need to specify the current or power you need from the power source. High voltage low power is no problem to create.
Lets do a thought experiment. Assume your craft's mass is 1000kg. You will then need 9810J just to balance gravity for 1 second. You will need 19620 watts to accelerate up at 1G for 1 second. For 1 minute you will need 1,177,200 joules of energy. Where will that energy come from. A 5KW generator needs to produce power for 235 seconds to supply just enough power for that one minute. So how much would a 20KW generator and fuel weigh.
Here's a second thought experiment. Take a 1m steel disk and spin it up to 20000rpm. How much faster can you spin it before it flies appart? The linear velocity of the disk translates to 1047m/s which is about 300,000 times less than the speed of light.
Thought experiments are fun and cheep!

 

[Jobrag]

I fear that we have a candidate for a Darwin award here, but good luck!

 

[bitrex]

.
Lets do a thought experiment. Assume your craft's mass is 1000kg. You will then need 9810J just to balance gravity for 1 second.

I'm not sure that's correct - if you're just balancing the force of gravity there's no work being done and no change in kinetic energy. Of course the craft still has to apply a force to balance the force of gravity, but the energy required to produce that force will differ depending on the method used. I imagine in the case of a rocketship it depends on the energy density of the fuel and how much has to be burned each second (power) to generate the mass flow rate/exhaust velocity for the required dP/dt. In the case of some sort of electromagnetic craft it depends on...? In either case though I don't think it's such a simple calculation.

 

[famousken]

I'm wanting to build a dc power source of 1 million volts more would be nice but ill start with a million and work my way up from there. Any suggestions would be helpufull. Is it possible to build a 1 million volt capacitor or should i build a capacitor bank to smooth out the ac current after its rectified or do you have a better suggestion for me. I'm wanting to build a coil gun with 1 million volts and not have to wait for capacitors to charge all the time just want to have a high voltage supply and fire it whenever. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

C/W multiplier would be the best way, in my opinion, but coil guns don't work that way, they usually operate anywhere from 60-600VDC at a few hundred amps. I would look into boost converters and a capacitor bank. I made a coil gun a few years back using 14 330V 330uf photoflash capacitors ($1 a piece from allelectronics.com) and a simple boost converter using a 555 timer and an irf 630 mosfet. It charged in about 5 seconds from 24vdc input.

 

[reddevil2576]

actually I have a new design for an engine that uses no fuel at all just electricity to power a craft with gyro I guess. I'm not to smart on the physics part of it but I'm very mechanically enclined and believe it will work acutally I need to produce a bunch of amperage I guess that's the one for a strong coil gun I guess you could call it that's not even close to what your thinking its for but I need to build very powerful coils to do what I need to do I'm going to order superconducting wire and build them out of that after i test the idea with cheaper wire.

 

[Adjuster]

Please be careful. High voltage electricity is very dangerous: treat it with respect.

Whatever you do, don't follow the suggestion try to fly a kite in a thunderstorm. While Benjamin Franklin is said to have tried such a bold experiment and survived, other people have lost their lives trying such stunts.