News Freedom of Speech: Challenges & Consequences

[azzkika]

Most internet sites which allows me and you to post our opinions are moderated to one degree or another. It is apparent that free speech is impossible as there are so many topics on which different people hold different views and it's impossible not to offend. From Julian assange to Islam to abortion and population control - it does not take long for topics on these matters to quickly become locked as many things are deemed offensive. this is a major stumbling block we have in society in general which ensures it's demise rather than improvement as things negatively impacting on society are not allowed to be freely debated therefore preventing corrective action.

Politically there are certain issues that are being avoided by all main parties. From EU faschist state to the problems of American bullying to the impending Islamic rule of England. All these issues have impacted badly upon the lives of many I know and will only get worse in time, and one of the contributing factors is that we are not free to speak our minds - indeed in this country you can be sacked depending upon political affiliation. Democracy has long been dead and censorship of thought and opinion seeks to keep it that way.

The world has gone mad. For example, it is not OK to smack your own child as a form of discipline yet it is OK to rip the genitalia off a female baby in a muslim family for the purpose of preventing sexual pleasure in adulthood. I wonder how long until this thread becomes locked. Many issues are inevitably going to offend someone and it would be so much better if freedom of speech was maintained irrespective of what people have to say. Only then can a true reflection of opinion be allowed and positive action with all things considered be accurate.

 

[drankin]

As far as freedom of speech, you have complete freedom to put up your own website forum and let people post away without any moderation whatsoever.

Other peoples sites are like their property. And they have the right to allow you on it and limit what you say on it.

It is not speech infringement. You are naive and incorrect in your belief that just because you have an internet connection you should be able to post anything you want anywhere you want and that if you can't there is some sort of injustice or infringement on your freedom of speech.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

A website is a privately-owned object, and can be controlled as seen fit by the owner. You have the freedom to create your own website and say whatever you want.

Topics on this forum aren't locked because the moderators are trying to censor, the site is predominantly a science-based forum first. The off-topic sections are provided for user convenience, but have specific guidelines. Follow them, and you won't have a problem. If you want to talk in detail about some of the other topics you mentioned, feel free to find a site which specifically deals with them.

 

[nismaratwork]

I don't get it... what's wrong with establishing standards for a private enterprise, and enforcing those standards? PF wants to educate people about physics, and be a community for its users of all ages. If you want to talk about your personal neurosis, there are doctors for that, friends, or other websites... livejournal for instance if it still exists.

 

[azzkika]

As far as freedom of speech, you have complete freedom to put up your own website forum and let people post away without any moderation whatsoever.

Other peoples sites are like their property. And they have the right to allow you on it and limit what you say on it.

It is not speech infringement. You are naive and incorrect in your belief that just because you have an internet connection you should be able to post anything you want anywhere you want and that if you can't there is some sort of injustice or infringement on your freedom of speech.

Fair comment. But having forums moderated means forums then become honed to what is acceptable in the view of the moderators. I wish I knew how to make my own website with forums. Sadly I don't. And I think having limits on what one can or cannot say just contributes to the big brother society with thought police around every corner that is being slowly established in most parts of society.

 

[Phrak]

As far as freedom of speech, you have complete freedom to put up your own website forum and let people post away without any moderation whatsoever.

Other peoples sites are like their property. And they have the right to allow you on it and limit what you say on it.

It is not speech infringement. You are naive and incorrect in your belief that just because you have an internet connection you should be able to post anything you want anywhere you want and that if you can't there is some sort of injustice or infringement on your freedom of speech.

Yes, it is speech infringement. Call a cow a cow, for all the justifiable reasons you've cited above.

 

[JaredJames]

In private your freedom of speech isn't the same as in public.

In my house, I have a right to dictate what you may or may not discuss. If I don't want you swearing I have a right to tell you not to, and if you do I can throw you out - there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Here is a very old report citing a case: http://www.slate.com/id/2079885/

Because malls are private property, and our constitutional rights are triggered only when the government (and not a private citizen) tries to limit our freedoms.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Most internet sites which allows me and you to post our opinions are moderated to one degree or another. It is apparent that free speech is impossible as there are so many topics on which different people hold different views and it's impossible not to offend. From Julian assange to Islam to abortion and population control - it does not take long for topics on these matters to quickly become locked as many things are deemed offensive. this is a major stumbling block we have in society in general which ensures it's demise rather than improvement as things negatively impacting on society are not allowed to be freely debated therefore preventing corrective action.

Maybe you’re missing the main point – PF is mainly about physics. It would be complete impossible to implement and maintain "Freedom of Physics", and get something useful out of that. There’s no 'scientific value' in a crackpot stating; "I can prove that the Earth is flat and 3,000 years old – my paper is soon ready for peer review" ...

Get it?

When it comes to GD and P&WA it’s somewhat different, but personally I think that https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=113181" are much in line with The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (1789), Article 11:

"The free communication of ideas and opinions is one of the most precious of the rights of man. Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write, and print with freedom, but shall be responsible for such abuses of this freedom as shall be defined by law."​

And the reason threads gets locked will will be found in "the law".

One should also remember that PF has an international membership, and what would be 'normal' and harmless to you, could be very offending to a person on the other side of the globe (I know that I have missed that several times when it comes to religion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill" (1859) is worth reading for those interested.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

In private your freedom of speech isn't the same as in public.

I think many Egyptians are experiencing this sensation in this very moment.

 

[JaredJames]

I think many Egyptians are experiencing this sensation in this very moment.

I know not of what is happening in Egypt at the moment.

 

[nismaratwork]

I know not of what is happening in Egypt at the moment.

As of yesterday, massive rioting against the current government, but AFAIK (sorry DA) the main issue are economic, and rightly so! I want to speak, but only after I'm fed and clothed thanks.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I know not of what is happening in Egypt at the moment.

You’re not watching the news (CNN)...?

No worries, nismar has already 'prepared' https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=467010".

 

[nismaratwork]

You’re not watching the news (CNN)...?

No worries, nismar has already 'prepared' https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=467010".

*sniffle* such a good Avocado! Thanks for the good press.

 

[JaredJames]

You’re not watching the news (CNN)...?

Not even sure if I can get CNN in the UK. Perhaps I'll have to dig around the Sky news channels.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

but AFAIK (sorry DA) the main issue are economic

I don’t think the 'subject' matter that much... not for freedom of speech anyway... If you get your head bloody because you open your mouth, you got your head bloody because you opened your mouth...

*sniffle* such a good Avocado! Thanks for the good press.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Not even sure if I can get CNN in the UK. Perhaps I'll have to dig around the Sky news channels.

Ha! And BBC has gone on vacation??

()

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/26/egypt.protests/index.html"

 

[nismaratwork]

I don’t think the 'subject' matter that much... not for freedom of speech anyway... If you get your head bloody because you open your mouth, you got your head bloody because you opened your mouth...

You're right about the bloody head... I've been in the USA for too long... too soft. I guess I'm just very dismayed to see such a strong US and EU ally would suddenly come under such intense pressure.

I'm not surprised, but I AM also dismayed by the response of the Mubarak govt. Honestly, I'm very torn here... of course the people of Egypt want freedom, but history tells us if they win this fight it's chaos they'll get.

It seems also, in response to the post you've made as I'm typing this (I'm sloooow), that the Mubarak regime is really roughing up reporters and cracking down on twitter. Today, there are no protests, but they are planned for tomorrow it seems. I guess it's not news unless someone is bleeding from the head, live on video. *jab at the BBC, not you DA*.

It would be excellent if this led to a change in government, without chaos however...

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I'm not surprised, but I AM also dismayed by the response of the Mubarak govt. Honestly, I'm very torn here... of course the people of Egypt want freedom, but history tells us if they win this fight it's chaos they'll get.

Agree, I’m totally ignorant on the "political situation" and what might come... I do know that the "founding fathers" of what you see happening in Afghanistan today, was in jail a couple of years ago, don’t know if they are still alive... If chaos breaks out, and these "founding fathers" get out... well, the Middle East will not be on my list for 'possible vacations'...

Let’s hope it ends well and democracy survive... Friday will be crucial...

 

[nismaratwork]

Agree, I’m totally ignorant on the "political situation" and what might come... I do know that the "founding fathers" of what you see happening in Afghanistan today, was in jail a couple of years ago, don’t know if they are still alive... If chaos breaks out, and these "founding fathers" get out... well, the Middle East will not be on my list for 'possible vacations'...

Let’s hope it ends well and democracy survive... Friday will be crucial...

Yes, we just have to wait and see.

 

[Al68]

Yes, it is speech infringement. Call a cow a cow, for all the justifiable reasons you've cited above.

How is PF refusing to post what you want them to "speech infringement"? PF isn't stopping you from doing anything, they are simply choosing what they will or won't put on their web site. Calling that speech infringement is like me calling your failure to buy me a rifle an infringement on my right to bear arms. It's just illogical nonsense.

Your right to free speech doesn't constitute an obligation on the part of others to use their resources to publish it.

 

[nismaratwork]

How is PF refusing to post what you want them to "speech infringement"? PF isn't stopping you from doing anything, they are simply choosing what they will or won't put on their web site. Calling that speech infringement is like me calling your failure to buy me a rifle an infringement on my right to bear arms. It's just illogical nonsense.

Your right to free speech doesn't constitute an obligation on the part of others to use their resources to publish it.

That's what he's saying man; he's saying it IS infringing on your expression, but that isn't some magically terrible thing: it's normal and even OK.

That, or Phrak has gone off the deep end... and I doubt it.

 

[Al68]

That's what he's saying man; he's saying it IS infringing on your expression, but that isn't some magically terrible thing: it's normal and even OK.

Could be, but "infringing on" has a different meaning from "declining to assist". PF moderators have deleted several of my posts, but have never infringed on my free speech rights one iota. They simply lack any power whatsoever to do so. They may have duct tape, but they would have to catch me first.

 

[nismaratwork]

Could be, but "infringing on" has a different meaning from "declining to assist". PF moderators have deleted several of my posts, but have never infringed on my free speech rights one iota. They simply lack any power whatsoever to do so. They may have duct tape, but they would have to catch me first.

I read, "speech infringement", not "infringement of rights". You have no right to free speech here, nor do I, nor does Phrak... our speech is now infringed upon or we cease to be absolute speak entirely. That doesn't mean that PF in any way is wrong, and as no rights are there to infringed... non-issue!

Beyond that, Phrak can speak for himself... I was just surprised by your take on things. For the record, the deleting mention... I didn't report you, and I'm not going to. I disagree because I think you misunderstood... it happens. If I'm wrong, then go wild... but maybe waiting for confirmation would be good?

 

[Al68]

I read, "speech infringement", not "infringement of rights". You have no right to free speech here, nor do I, nor does Phrak... our speech is now infringed upon or we cease to be absolute speak entirely. That doesn't mean that PF in any way is wrong, and as no rights are there to infringed... non-issue!

Beyond that, Phrak can speak for himself... I was just surprised by your take on things. For the record, the deleting mention... I didn't report you, and I'm not going to. I disagree because I think you misunderstood... it happens. If I'm wrong, then go wild... but maybe waiting for confirmation would be good?

I didn't mean to imply you reported any of my posts, I only mentioned it as an example. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

As far as "speech infringement" goes, I think my take is the same as your take, except for semantics. The word "infringement" means to prevent or restrict, it doesn't mean to decline to publish or decline to assist someone's speech.

 

[Gokul43201]

PF is not infringing on anyone's speech, in about the same way that a library or grocery store or car wash does not infringe on anyone's right/need/fancy to sing a song or buy a gun or leave the windows down on their car. PF provides you with an avenue to produce more speech, not less. You do not have greater freedom of speech in the absence of PF.

 

[azzkika]

Maybe you’re missing the main point – PF is mainly about physics. It would be complete impossible to implement and maintain "Freedom of Physics", and get something useful out of that. There’s no 'scientific value' in a crackpot stating; "I can prove that the Earth is flat and 3,000 years old – my paper is soon ready for peer review" ...

Get it?

When it comes to GD and P&WA it’s somewhat different, but personally I think that https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=113181" are much in line with The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (1789), Article 11:

"The free communication of ideas and opinions is one of the most precious of the rights of man. Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write, and print with freedom, but shall be responsible for such abuses of this freedom as shall be defined by law."​

And the reason threads gets locked will will be found in "the law".

One should also remember that PF has an international membership, and what would be 'normal' and harmless to you, could be very offending to a person on the other side of the globe (I know that I have missed that several times when it comes to religion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill" (1859) is worth reading for those interested.

I know this is a site mainly devoted to science, and I am very grateful for it. Your last paragraph supports part of my original assertion, that something can be very damaging to our society but cannot be discussed in case offense is caused. I did post this in politics and world affairs btw which is there for discussions of this type.

I perhaps used moderation of a website as bad example of my point to this. In all areas of western culture one can be prosecuted or sacked for simply speaking the truth. Even journalists who publish footage of murder have western politicians calling for them to be executed! Freedom of speech has long been dead and the internet has reversed the oppression of free speech by the authorities to quite a degree so my questioning of moderation is fair one I think. Of course physics forums has the right to allow or disallow any content they wish, I just think moderation of any form is a subtle reflection of the Orwellian nightmare we live in today. The inability to speak about certain topics because of possible offense has already had disastrous consequences in some parts of the UK and will continue to allow social cancers to carry on untreated.

 

[JaredJames]

Even journalists who publish footage of murder have western politicians calling for them to be executed!

I would love to see the source for this claim.

Freedom of speech has long been dead and the internet has reversed the oppression of free speech by the authorities to quite a degree so my questioning of moderation is fair one I think. Of course physics forums has the right to allow or disallow any content they wish, I just think moderation of any form is a subtle reflection of the Orwellian nightmare we live in today. The inability to speak about certain topics because of possible offense has already had disastrous consequences in some parts of the UK and will continue to allow social cancers to carry on untreated.

Possible offence?

I would have you note that in the UK, you can speak freely about whatever you want so long as you aren't preaching hate or something that is considered illegal. That is not what freedom of speech is about. There are people outside Westminster preaching what are considered dreadful topics everyday, but because they aren't screaming about something illegal or inciting hatred/violence there's nothing that can be done to stop them.

Political correctness only really affects government issues - naming conventions for groups of people for example. So far as the general public are concerned, you can't be prosecuted for calling someone something the government doesn't consider PC (unless it comes under an area such as Racism). Generally, the worst thing that would happen is you annoy someone by not being PC - in most cases I simply say "tuff".

 

[nismaratwork]

I didn't mean to imply you reported any of my posts, I only mentioned it as an example. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

As far as "speech infringement" goes, I think my take is the same as your take, except for semantics. The word "infringement" means to prevent or restrict, it doesn't mean to decline to publish or decline to assist someone's speech.

Yeah, that works too.

 

[nismaratwork]

PF is not infringing on anyone's speech, in about the same way that a library or grocery store or car wash does not infringe on anyone's right/need/fancy to sing a song or buy a gun or leave the windows down on their car. PF provides you with an avenue to produce more speech, not less. You do not have greater freedom of speech in the absence of PF.

I'm sorry, you must not be aware of Christine O'Donnel's position on these matters, and what of poor poor Doctor Laura?! Remember...

Embattled radio talk show host Dr. Laura Schlessinger announced Tuesday she will not renew her contract that is up at the end of the year, telling CNN's "Larry King Live" she wants to "regain my First Amendment rights."

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-17/entertainment/doctor.laura.ends.show_1_n-word-schlessinger-radio-show?_s=PM:SHOWBIZ



Yeah, the FCC and interest groups have an effect, but you still have RADIO show. On the other hand, now she can express her outrage to her cats... she strikes me as someone who will be eaten by her cats.

I think this stems from the endless rhetoric that depends, not on an actual logical argument, just volume and stridency.

 

[nismaratwork]

I would love to see the source for this claim.

<SNIP>

Me too! I'm sure given the number of people who could be called, "western politicians" you can probably find an example of all slices of humanity. I'd like to see this as some kind of public call however... we don't do Fatwas, and I think we're getting more heat than light from azzkika

 

[JaredJames]

Me too! I'm sure given the number of people who could be called, "western politicians" you can probably find an example of all slices of humanity. I'd like to see this as some kind of public call however... we don't do Fatwas, and I think we're getting more heat than light from azzkika

I have absolutely no doubt that some politician somewhere has gone "I wish someone would 'deal' with that guy", but I'd be extremely surprised to find they've made it public - "called for it" if you will.

 

[nismaratwork]

I have absolutely no doubt that some politician somewhere has gone "I wish someone would 'deal' with that guy", but I'd be extremely surprised to find they've made it public - "called for it" if you will.

Now THAT I believe, but by the nature of the claim, it's not something you or I could prove, and public rhetoric can be apologized for and called "heated". It's those slips on a live microphone that really give you insight, speaking of W... and Cheney. Oh man... that was classic.

 

[azzkika]

<SNIP>

Me too! I'm sure given the number of people who could be called, "western politicians" you can probably find an example of all slices of humanity. I'd like to see this as some kind of public call however... we don't do Fatwas, and I think we're getting more heat than light from azzkika

Are you not familiar with the journalist Julian Assange? It is a fact he published footage of atrocities committed by US servicemen and certain US politicians have called for him to be hunted down like Al Queda and executed. Even media freedom is under threat in the west.

 

[JaredJames]

Are you not familiar with the journalist Julian Assange? It is a fact he published footage of atrocities committed by US servicemen and certain US politicians have called for him to be hunted down like Al Queda and executed. Even media freedom is under threat in the west.

I knew you would go for him.

I want a source showing a politician publicly calling for him to be "hunted down and executed".

Also note, he's not a journalist.

 

[nismaratwork]

Are you not familiar with the journalist Julian Assange? It is a fact he published footage of atrocities committed by US servicemen and certain US politicians have called for him to be hunted down like Al Queda and executed. Even media freedom is under threat in the west.

Julian Assange is a journalist?... Huh... he doesn't follow journalistic practices, and he uses criminal means to get his information.

So, please cite which POLITICIANS (you just added "servicemen") which is already a broad enough term called for Assange to be, "hunted down like Al [Qaeda] and executed."

When you refer to media freedom in the west being under threat, do you just mean wikileaks, and if so, what part of the "west"?

 

[JaredJames]

That is what journalists do in case you didn't know, it happens all the time.

What, steal information? It was not acquired legally. That's a crime.

Again, Assange is NOT a journalist.

Sarah Palin called for him to be hunted down like Al Queda and several US politicians are on record stating he should be executed.

Post a source please.

It is interesting that editors of the New York Times the Daily telegraph and youtube and various other media sources have not been labelled in the same way Julian Assange has.

The methods of other news agencies were discussed in the other thread on this, they are significantly different to Assange's.

Obviously one of your own was sufficiently horrified with some of the information he was privy to, he sacrificed his own future and well being in order to allow the information into the public domain.

Or he assumed he would never be caught.

 

[nismaratwork]

What Jared said... all of it, but I'd add.. Palin says a lot of things, and she's not a politician... she's a tv reality star and FORMER politician.

Obviously one of your own was sufficiently horrified with some of the information he was privy to, he sacrificed his own future and well being in order to allow the information into the public domain.

No, not at all, believe it or not people can disagree with you for good reasons other than the straw men you construct.

 

[mugaliens]

Most internet sites which allows me and you to post our opinions are moderated to one degree or another. It is apparent that free speech is impossible...

I've either moderated or admined more that a dozen online message forums (we called them dial-up BBS's back in the day) for 25 years.

I always tried to post a clear set of very simple rules and enforce them. My rules revolved around something my Dad told me when I was a child - "swing your stick far and wide, but you if hit anyone, be prepared to pay the consequenses."

I soon discovered mods could be worse than the posters! I rode herd on my mods more than I did on most forum members.

As for my members, I simply debated the issues, in accordance with the rules.

I think I was a good, fair judge.

My 20 years of experience in the military showed me that things there are pretty much the same all over.

azzkika, if you don't like this message forum, one of the most amazing things about the Internet is that you're free to create your own, and do with it whatever you wish! As http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mork_%26_Mindy" would say, "be free!"

If you don't want to pursue your own creative route, then "monsters be here," but they're simply normal people doing a tough, non-paying job, and as much as I myself might not agree with their decisions, I do very much thank them for their tireless efforts!

 

[azzkika]

Obviously some people are experts on Julian assange and his methods of work. I am sure the US governkment would much like your help in trying to find what he has done other than receive and publish leaked information same as many other journalists do. Palin was all over the UK media making headlines when she called for him to be executed, sorry no link thought it was common knowledge. He IS a journalist regardless of your opinion. The accusations against this man are as yet unfounded. You ask me to provide links and proof yet assert your own unfounded opinions as fact purely because do disagree with the information he leaked.

 

[JaredJames]

Nobody here has said they disagree with what he leaked or have made any comment regarding the charges against him, that is a separate debate - located in another thread on PF.

Julian Assange doesn't fall under the definition of a journalist. Taking information and simply putting it on a website does not make you a journalist. He is no more a journalist than a blogger who copies news stories to their blog.

You make a claim, you back it up. I'm in the UK and I haven't seen anything of Sarah Palin calling for him to be executed.

We are not asserting our opinion as fact. If you make a claim and cannot back it up, then there is absolutely no reason for us to believe it. That is how things work around here (and in science). If you can't back it up, I have no reason to accept what you say and so as far as I'm concerned it didn't happen.

Now, I've done your work for you:

Sarah Palin has demanded that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is hunted down like Osama bin Laden.

In an extraordinary outburst on Facebook, the former Alaska governor attacked the White House for 'incompetent handling of this whole fiasco.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-like-Al-Qaeda-terrorist.html#ixzz1CbZjXKXC

Sarah Palin can put what she likes on Facebook. That is not a public call by a politician anymore than me putting he should be hunted down on FB is. That is a personal comment.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I know this is a site mainly devoted to science, and I am very grateful for it.

Absolutely, and maybe we should all be grateful for the fantastic work the PF Staff do – for free! Where else could you have a long discussion with a PhD Professor of Physics, explaining things that would you never understand otherwise – for free!? IMO, PF is a "communication miracle"!

Your last paragraph supports part of my original assertion, that something can be very damaging to our society but cannot be discussed in case offense is caused. I did post this in politics and world affairs btw which is there for discussions of this type.

In the case of PF, I think you are wrong. You can discuss almost everything – as long as you follow the rules, i.e. you must behave civilized and 'crackpottery' is not allowed, whether it’s religion, politics or physics.

I have personally spoken to the owner off this site, when in a tired and 'distraught state' I got the feeling – "Hey! They are ALL against me! MY post was deleted for NO reason! "

This was of course silly and stupidly wrong. He didn’t care at all about "the discussion", and he didn’t know any of the details – he just prevented a 'private turmoil', between two PF users who had forgotten that they weren’t the alone in the thread... And yes, afterward I was...

I perhaps used moderation of a website as bad example of my point to this. In all areas of western culture one can be prosecuted or sacked for simply speaking the truth.

I take it for granted you know that "the truth" is a very "delicate matter"... what is "the truth" to you, could be a terrible lie for someone on the other side of the planet... A scientific objective truth, yes (if we don’t get into the QM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem" ). A political/social objective truth...?? Well, I have never heard that this 'works in practice'...

If you feel that you hate your job – then this is the truth for you. The owner of the company will probably have a 'slightly different' view on 'the problem'... and if you tell him "the truth", you obviously also have to deal with the 'consequences'...

Freedom of speech has long been dead and the internet has reversed the oppression of free speech by the authorities to quite a degree so my questioning of moderation is fair one I think. Of course physics forums has the right to allow or disallow any content they wish, I just think moderation of any form is a subtle reflection of the Orwellian nightmare we live in today.

How about this nightmare: Let’s say that the PF Staff listens to your 'complaints', and change the rules suddenly – Now Everything Goes on PF!

How can you be sure that this will result in a "Free Speech Paradise" according to your preferences? AFAICT, the chances are equal it could turn into a 'paradise' for those whose opinions are contrary to yours, right??

And maybe worse... maybe we will end up having 90% of the material on PF being 'enlightening' discussions on "Global Conspiracy Theories", like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aTmde7KHA4

Would you really find this 'satisfying', huh??


I’m sure I wouldn’t, and I would get out of PF fast as h*ll...

 

[BoomBoom]

I just think moderation of any form is a subtle reflection of the Orwellian nightmare we live in today.

What "Orwellian nightmare"? Do you really believe that it is against some law to offend people? If it were really as bad as you seem to suggest, then why would groups like the Westboro Babtist Church be allowed to do what they do? Or why would groups like the Aryan nations or KKK be allowed to exist? Why isn't Bill Maher (or almost any other comedian for that matter) in jail? lol

Just because you shouldn't say something, does not mean you can't. You might not be able to do it here, but AFAIK, you can post anything you feel like posting on your own Facebook or Twitter account, or even start up your own forums, or a blog.

'Political Correctness' is a suggestion, not a law.

 

[azzkika]

What "Orwellian nightmare"? Do you really believe that it is against some law to offend people? If it were really as bad as you seem to suggest, then why would groups like the Westboro Babtist Church be allowed to do what they do? Or why would groups like the Aryan nations or KKK be allowed to exist? Why isn't Bill Maher (or almost any other comedian for that matter) in jail? lol

Just because you shouldn't say something, does not mean you can't. You might not be able to do it here, but AFAIK, you can post anything you feel like posting on your own Facebook or Twitter account, or even start up your own forums, or a blog.

'Political Correctness' is a suggestion, not a law.

Perhaps things are different in the US to how it is in the UK. Political affiliation can get you sacked from any public office and any remark that does not come under the umbrella of the PC thought police can also get you the sack. The nightmare is the 'big brother' society as predicted by Orwell which is slowly establishing itself across EU society. Christian preachers from the US have their freedom of movement because he suggested to burn a Koran which he was quite right to do so given it's advocacy of paedophilia, rape and murder and subjagtion of the female of our species. Governments are more concerned with spin and power and pandering to the cartels that run the show rather than serving the people who elect them. saying or doing anything that constitutes the merest infraction of the big brother dogma can have dire consequences for ones freedoms into todays society.

Moderation of websites is of course the right of whoever owns the website, but it does sometimes seem the thinking of political nutters transcends into many areas of life.

 

[nismaratwork]

Perhaps things are different in the US to how it is in the UK.

Yes, it is in fact quite different in two utterly different countries with different systems of governance, separated by an ocean and of two utterly different social and racial make-ups. For instance, you have the Magna Carta... we have hamburgers.

Political affiliation can get you sacked from any public office and any remark that does not come under the umbrella of the PC thought police can also get you the sack. The nightmare is the 'big brother' society as predicted by Orwell which is slowly establishing itself across EU society.

Man I have to tell you, that is terrible in my view, but "Orwellian Nightmare"? Um... no.

Christian preachers from the US have their freedom of movement because he suggested to burn a Koran which he was quite right to do so given it's advocacy of paedophilia, rape and murder and subjagtion of the female of our species.

Actually, they have it in SPITE of the fact that he preached all of those things. In the end, the pressure of society and government averted that, which is another element of free exchange in an open society. If someone waltzed in here recruiting for NAMBLA, he might not be out of his 1st amendment rights... and neither would the staff when they sent him packing and called him named. I think you're missing the point of freedom of expression and assembly, but fortunately, not the Egyptians.

Governments are more concerned with spin and power and pandering to the cartels that run the show rather than serving the people who elect them.

Name a government that doesn't describe... I'll give you all of human history to find some kind of axiom about the existence of spinless governments run by saints.

saying or doing anything that constitutes the merest infraction of the big brother dogma can have dire consequences for ones freedoms into todays society.

Which societies? UK, US, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, Ecuador, Canada? A different one? I have to say, for such an oppressed people the British do seem to say what's on their mind, yell their PM, and generally elect and fire who they want. I think what you might be saying is that when you say the things which you believe, that's the reaction you get. It's lonely in that situation... far better to be part of an oppressed majority.

Moderation of websites is of course the right of whoever owns the website, but it does sometimes seem the thinking of political nutters transcends into many areas of life.

The irony in saying this is rich, but you owe the mentors here for the very fact that I'm speaking civilly to you. If nothing else, your freedom to express what I consider to be absurdities is being ACTIVELY protected by the same people you're slagging.

 

[JaredJames]

Man I have to tell you, that is terrible in my view, but "Orwellian Nightmare"? Um... no.

I personally don't have a problem with the whole 'big brother' thing. It's the nanny state that does my head in, but that's another debate.

Actually, they have it in SPITE of the fact that he preached all of those things. In the end, the pressure of society and government averted that, which is another element of free exchange in an open society. If someone waltzed in here recruiting for NAMBLA, he might not be out of his 1st amendment rights... and neither would the staff when they sent him packing and called him named. I think you're missing the point of freedom of expression and assembly, but fortunately, not the Egyptians.

The preacher who wanted to burn the Qu'ran was banned from entering the UK because of his extremism. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12231832

I don't have a problem with this. Especially given the reason he was coming here - to support the EDL (English Defence League).

The irony in saying this is rich, but you owe the mentors here for the very fact that I'm speaking civilly to you. If nothing else, your freedom to express what I consider to be absurdities is being ACTIVELY protected by the same people you're slagging.

Well said.

 

[jtbell]

How about this nightmare: Let’s say that the PF Staff listens to your 'complaints', and change the rules suddenly – Now Everything Goes on PF!

You can see what the result would be, by reading some Usenet newsgroups, or by reading the comments section at the bottom of most articles on cnn.com. (Maybe CNN does moderate those comments, but I sure can't tell by looking at them!)

 

[nismaratwork]

You can see what the result would be, by reading some Usenet newsgroups, or by reading the comments section at the bottom of most articles on cnn.com. (Maybe CNN does moderate those comments, but I sure can't tell by looking at them!)

Wenn ich "Usenet" höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!


By the way, "moderation" at CNN from the little I've read of their comments is a running street battle between some truly extreme people. The stuff that actually gets through is pretty astonishing, even given that.

 

[nismaratwork]

I personally don't have a problem with the whole 'big brother' thing. It's the nanny state that does my head in, but that's another debate.


The preacher who wanted to burn the Qu'ran was banned from entering the UK because of his extremism. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12231832

I don't have a problem with this. Especially given the reason he was coming here - to support the EDL (English Defence League).


Well said.

OOooooh...yes, the UK angle, I stand corrected. Thanks Jared! Personally, I like the US most of the time, but there are other times when we're not fighting for liberty (i.e. most of the time) that the UK version seems more generally sane.

Someone tells their followers that homosexuals deserve to die? Yeah... you should be in front of a magistrate; like PF, it's a different environment.

It's also really REALLY safe compared to the US... and yet there are very few in British society who seem to feel "silenced" or even overly watched. I believe in keeping secrets, but what secret do you need to keep on a public sidewalk? Nothing good I'm guessing...

 

[JaredJames]

It's also really REALLY safe compared to the US... and yet there are very few in British society who seem to feel "silenced" or even overly watched. I believe in keeping secrets, but what secret do you need to keep on a public sidewalk? Nothing good I'm guessing...

If I wanted, I could go to Westminster tomorrow and preach about our troops and the horrors of the extremist religious nuts out in Afghanistan and Iraq - true or not.

For those in the UK, it's not really a problem. But for those coming in, it is - quite understandably.

 

[nismaratwork]

If I wanted, I could go to Westminster tomorrow and preach about our troops and the horrors of the extremist religious nuts out in Afghanistan and Iraq - true or not.

For those in the UK, it's not really a problem. But for those coming in, it is - quite understandably.

Well, culture shock is universal, but it can't be helped.