Hall Effect Magnetic Flux Sensor in very Strong Magnetic Fields


by maxim
Tags: effect, fields, flux, hall, magnetic, sensor, strong
maxim
maxim is offline
#1
Feb14-12, 03:43 PM
P: 46
Dear PFs

I am facing a problem with finding a good Hall-effect magnetic flux sensor which should be fixed in the top of a probe working in a very intense magnetic field.

The probe must be aligned to a certain degree with respect to the direction of the main field. The requested alignement accuracy should be on the order of 1/10 of degree (or less even better).

The magnetic field is very strong, of the order of 16.5 Tesla (16.5 x 10^4 Gauss).

I had thought to place the sensor in parallel geometry, with its plane oriented parallel to the magnetic flux lines. Thus I expect to detect a zero voltage when the sensor is perfectly aligned to the main field, and a not-zero voltage which depends strongly on the angle between the direction of the main field and the normal to the sensor surface.
Afterwards I will try to elaborate such voltages (VH) to get a feedback for the correct alignement.



Here's the problem: which kind of sensor can I test?
I've drawn my attention to the Lakeshore Hall device HGT-3030, but it seems to be very difficult to find.

Any experience here?

Can you suggest some commercial models with a easy schematic diagram or application note?

Thanks for your enthusiastic responses!

max
Phys.Org News Partner Engineering news on Phys.org
Lifting the brakes on fuel efficiency
PsiKick's batteryless sensors poised for coming 'Internet of things'
Researcher launches successful tech start-up to help the blind
jim hardy
jim hardy is offline
#2
Feb14-12, 09:08 PM
Sci Advisor
jim hardy's Avatar
P: 3,138
might Metglas be of any use?

here's a hobbyist article..see page 2 0f 6.
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse104.pdf

and
http://www.metglas.com/faq/?faq_id=24
Question:
What is the permeability of 2714A?
Answer:

Our METGLAS 2714A ribbon can achieve a permeability of 100,000. The ribbon thickness is about 18 micron and we can supply up to 50 mm (2 inch) wide ribbon.
maxim
maxim is offline
#3
Feb15-12, 12:43 AM
P: 46
Thanks Jim.

I think I need a more sophisticated device, as Linear Hall Effect Sensor ICs with a low linearity error and a good magnetic sensitivity.

jim hardy
jim hardy is offline
#4
Feb15-12, 09:35 AM
Sci Advisor
jim hardy's Avatar
P: 3,138

Hall Effect Magnetic Flux Sensor in very Strong Magnetic Fields


got it.

They're not here?
www.lakeshore.com
Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. (614) 891-2244 fax: (614) 818-1600
e-mail: info@lakeshore.com


http://lakeshore.com/products/Hall-M.../Ordering.aspx

sorry for being nosey - just i'm fascibated by magnetics. once built a fluxgate magnetometer.
maxim
maxim is offline
#5
Feb15-12, 01:17 PM
P: 46
HGT-3030 Transverse Hall generator costs $444...

Magnetic sensitivity . . . . . . . . . . 6.0 mV/kG to 10.0 mV/kG
Nominal control current . . . . . . . 100 mA
Maximum linearity error . . . . . . . 0.30% rdg (-10 to 10 kG) 1.25% rdg (-30 to 30 kG)
Zero field offset voltage . . . . . . . 75 V (max)
Operating temperature range . . . . -40 C to +100 C
Active area . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.02 mm diameter



Honestly, I was looking for an equivalent inexpensive device.
maxim
maxim is offline
#6
Feb20-12, 12:23 AM
P: 46
No more ideas? :(
jim hardy
jim hardy is offline
#7
Feb20-12, 03:57 PM
Sci Advisor
jim hardy's Avatar
P: 3,138
What physical size must this apparatus be?

What is it about the field that you want to measure? Intensity, direction, variations?

I have only tinkered as a hobbyist with a fluxgate magnetometer measuring earth's field and i dont have experience with fields as strong as you cited, which sounds like it might be in a speaker voicecoil airgap or something. I also tinkered with some LVDT position sensors (12 feet tall) at work... another story ...

My magnetometer sensed from kitchen table automobiles passing in the street, refrigerator door opening, it had surprising sensitivity. But you are looking for precise measurement of direction? Will your apparatus affect the local field?

Jack M Janicke's Magnetic Measurements Handbook is best "poor man's" introduction to the subject that i ever saw.
Here's Honeywell's introductory appnote.
http://www51.honeywell.com/aero/comm...on-Sensors.pdf

Sorry - i just am not expert in that field, so shotgunned you with what i could find 'cause you asked for help and there didnt seem to be much.
I dont know your degree of familiarity so hope you aren't offended.


old jim
jim hardy
jim hardy is offline
#8
Feb20-12, 06:30 PM
Sci Advisor
jim hardy's Avatar
P: 3,138
http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ZMT32.pdf
maxim
maxim is offline
#9
Feb21-12, 12:52 AM
P: 46
Quote Quote by jim hardy View Post
What physical size must this apparatus be?

What is it about the field that you want to measure? Intensity, direction, variations?
Hi Jim,

as wrote at the beginning the magnetic field I need to handle is very strong, of the order of 16.5 Tesla (16.5 x 10^4 Gauss)!


I have only tinkered as a hobbyist with a fluxgate magnetometer measuring earth's field and i dont have experience with fields as strong as you cited, which sounds like it might be in a speaker voicecoil airgap or something. I also tinkered with some LVDT position sensors (12 feet tall) at work... another story ...
Yes, my application is not trivial. I need to measure flux variations of a strong magnetic field over an area of c.a. 1mm2 with high accuracy.

My magnetometer sensed from kitchen table automobiles passing in the street, refrigerator door opening, it had surprising sensitivity. But you are looking for precise measurement of direction? Will your apparatus affect the local field?
The sensor will be placed inside the magnetic field, where a probe for nuclear measurements must be aligned to the lines of force.


Jack M Janicke's Magnetic Measurements Handbook is best "poor man's" introduction to the subject that i ever saw.
Here's Honeywell's introductory appnote.
http://www51.honeywell.com/aero/comm...on-Sensors.pdf
Nice, I will have a look.

Sorry - i just am not expert in that field, so shotgunned you with what i could find 'cause you asked for help and there didnt seem to be much.
I dont know your degree of familiarity so hope you aren't offended.
old jim
Com'on, where is the problem?

Thank you for your help!
jim hardy
jim hardy is offline
#10
Feb21-12, 01:42 AM
Sci Advisor
jim hardy's Avatar
P: 3,138
It sounds fascinating and i wish i had experience to offer you.

But i'd get distracted trying to invent a new sensor out of Flint glass and Faraday effect.


Best of luck to you, sir, and thanks for your kindness.

old jim
f95toli
f95toli is offline
#11
Feb21-12, 10:18 AM
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
f95toli's Avatar
P: 2,197
My advice would be to just buy a proper sensor. The fact that you are working with a 16T magnet means that you are using reasonably sophisticated equipment (you are obiously not doing this in your basement at home), and $400 is not much money under these circumstances.
Also, remember you will -regardless of what you end up using- need some form of reasonbly accurate read-out electronics; and good sensor will probably easier to read out, meaning you won't need a a bunch of extra kit just to compensate for the fact that your sensor is e.g. giving you a very weak signal.
maxim
maxim is offline
#12
Feb21-12, 12:35 PM
P: 46
Hi f95toli

Quote Quote by f95toli View Post
My advice would be to just buy a proper sensor. The fact that you are working with a 16T magnet means that you are using reasonably sophisticated equipment (you are obiously not doing this in your basement at home), and $400 is not much money under these circumstances.
In these circumstances $400 is too much when you have to pay from your own pocket...
I guess the driving of such a sensor is not trivial, and I have no experience on that.


Also, remember you will -regardless of what you end up using- need some form of reasonbly accurate read-out electronics; and good sensor will probably easier to read out, meaning you won't need a a bunch of extra kit just to compensate for the fact that your sensor is e.g. giving you a very weak signal.
This I know; infact I was looking for a HGT-3030 Lakeshore sensor.
In the meantime I hoped to find here peple with some experience in projecting of interfaces for Hall sensor, just to avoid lost of time fighting the silliest problems.

Perhaps another thread would be most suitable?


Thanks anyway for your input!

maxim
jim hardy
jim hardy is offline
#13
Feb21-12, 06:39 PM
Sci Advisor
jim hardy's Avatar
P: 3,138
Get that Janicke book.

I hope he's still living - we exchanged several emails on my magnetometer.
He is very knowledgeable practical and helpful.
old jim
maxim
maxim is offline
#14
Feb22-12, 12:18 AM
P: 46
Hi Jim,

I've found it on Amazon. I will (re)start from that.
Carl Pugh
Carl Pugh is offline
#15
Feb22-12, 12:28 PM
P: 383
How are you making a 165 kilogauss field?
This high a magnetic field requires extremely expensive equipment.
maxim
maxim is offline
#16
Feb22-12, 02:48 PM
P: 46
Quote Quote by Carl Pugh View Post
How are you making a 165 kilogauss field?
This high a magnetic field requires extremely expensive equipment.
It is a commercial cryomagnet made with superconductive wires working at the liquid Helium temperature (4.2 K). This has not been bought by myself, rather by the lab that asked my expertise. There is no budget saved for the project "Hall-sensor".
That's why I am looking for an unexpensive solution: this should get out of my wallet.
Unfortunately for me it seems that only (expensive) Lakeshore sensors are on the horizon...
jim hardy
jim hardy is offline
#17
Feb22-12, 05:49 PM
Sci Advisor
jim hardy's Avatar
P: 3,138
That Zetex Hall effect angle sensor is under $3 here
http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/...4294938328-631


they spec it to 50 ka/m typical range,

no maximum field is given

if you bent the leads down it'd make your 1/4 inch size.

http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ZMT32.pdf

again i realize this may be clutter.


over and out

old jim
maxim
maxim is offline
#18
Feb23-12, 12:51 AM
P: 46
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the tip.

ZMT32 is in stock but for applications under low field conditions, which is not the case.

I think what I would do in my case, it would be something in the middle between ZMT32 and HGT-3030


Register to reply

Related Discussions
Hall Effect, reversing magnetic fields Advanced Physics Homework 0
Using a Hall Effect sensor IC for high fields Electrical Engineering 6
Help finding magnetic flux, EMF, magnetic fields of solenoids Advanced Physics Homework 0
The Hall effect and the magnetic force on current carrying wires General Physics 6
Magnetic flux density and Hall probe Introductory Physics Homework 1