Singer Fiona Apple arrested in Texas

[SW VandeCarr]

for possession of hashish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFOzayDpWoI

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/09/21/entertainment-us-fionaapple-idINBRE88J19E20120921

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Damn. I love her voice, especially in thisBK30r_SIZ-g[/youtube]

 

[SW VandeCarr]

Damn. I love her voice, especially in this

Be careful Ryan. Don't be seduced by this dangerous woman. Thank heaven the authorities stopped her before she got to Austin, the very Capital of the Great State of Texas. I can't imagine what depredations she might have wrought there. Yes, they let her go after holding her overnight. I'm sure they know what they're doing. They want her to lead them to her fellow evil-doers so they can nab them all.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

She's been one of my favorites. This is too bad.

 

[George Jones]

A little off-topic, but this reminded me of something that happened to me at 6:30 am yesterday. I was walking down the sidewalk on my way to Tim Hortons (Canadian coffee shop), when a guy walking the other way stopped me and asked "Do you know where I can get some pot?"

I am not a young guy any more, e.g, my avatar picture was taken four years ago, and I was old when my daughter was born, so I found the situation to be somewhat bemusing. Maybe the guy confused me with a singer.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

A little off-topic, but this reminded me of something that happened to me at 6:30 am yesterday. I was walking down the sidewalk on my way to Tim Hortons (Canadian coffee shop), when a guy walking the other way stopped me and asked "Do you know where I can get some pot?"

I am not a young guy any more, e.g, my avatar picture was taken four years ago, and I was old when my daughter was born, so I found the situation to be somewhat bemusing. Maybe the guy confused me with a singer.

In Canada, I don't imagine they would stop you on a highway, search your vehicle, and if they found 4oz (~113.4 gm) of cannabis, they would jail you and charge you with a felony. ("You" in the general sense)

EDIT: Apparently Apple's tourbus was stopped at an interior Federal checkpoint (Sierra Blanca). It's not on the border. It's about 90 mi (145 km) SE of El Paso on Interstate 10. A drug sniffing dog picked up the scent. The case was turned over to the local Sheriff who described the find as a "small amount" of marijuana and hashish. Possession of hashish in any amount is a felony in Texas.

 

[Rooted]

A felony? Does that mean she's likely to serve time?

 

[jtbell]

Apparently Apple's tourbus was stopped at an interior Federal checkpoint (Sierra Blanca). It's not on the border. It's about 90 mi (145 km) SE of El Paso on Interstate 10.

My wife and I have been through that checkpoint a few times on our way between South Carolina and Arizona, most recently two years ago when I was on a solo trip. I don't think they ever asked us anything, just looked at us (a couple of non-Hispanic 50-60 year old geezers in a small sedan) and waved us on. I wonder what it takes to bring out the drug-sniffing dogs.

 

[I like Serena]

My wife and I have been through that checkpoint a few times on our way between South Carolina and Arizona, most recently two years ago when I was on a solo trip. I don't think they ever asked us anything, just looked at us (a couple of non-Hispanic 50-60 year old geezers in a small sedan) and waved us on. I wonder what it takes to bring out the drug-sniffing dogs.

Likely a celebrity.
At least that will bring them front page news. ;)

 

[SW VandeCarr]

A felony? Does that mean she's likely to serve time?

I don't know how likely it is, but under Texas law she could get 10 years. I suspect the prosecutor may decide not to prosecute or, more likely, accept a fine under a reduced charge if that's possible. I certainly hope so. She's a highly original and compelling figure in a music scene that is otherwise all too bland and uninspiring. As far as the law goes, it's pretty ridiculous to make simple possession of any amount of hashish, no matter how small, a felony. I've seen people beaten to an inch of the their lives where the perpetrator was only charged with a misdemeanor. I'm not a consumer of cannabis products but I have supported medical use with reasonable guidelines.

There's also the issue of the way she was stopped and arrested. The news media keeps on calling the location a "border check point". It's not. It's over 90mi (145km) from the El Paso border crossing. I question the legality of interior checkpoints where citizens can be stopped and searched with no probable cause. I lived for a short time in the old USSR (as part of my job) and never encountered an interior check point. Police could stop you at any time, but only to check your documentation.

One silver lining is that the publicity from this might prove helpful to Fiona's career. She recently released a new album after a 7 year hiatus. It debuted at Billboard's #3 position. Hopefully more people will discover her talent. Personally, I love contraltos.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

Likely a celebrity.
At least that will bring them front page news. ;)

Yeah, but only if her tour bus was clearly identifiable as hers from the outside. I don't think celebs travel like that. It would be pretty dumb.

My wife and I have been through that checkpoint a few times on our way between South Carolina and Arizona, most recently two years ago when I was on a solo trip. I don't think they ever asked us anything, just looked at us (a couple of non-Hispanic 50-60 year old geezers in a small sedan) and waved us on. I wonder what it takes to bring out the drug-sniffing dogs.

I really wonder too. Someone must have recognized her and thought we have a chicken ready to be plucked here. As I said above, I seriously doubt she had her name plastered on the bus. Maybe they run the dogs on all tour buses.

EDIT: She may also have been identified by the Federal Border Patrol when the bus was first stopped. Since this is not an actual border crossing point, I don't see how this is justified without probable cause.

 

[Rooted]

I don't know how likely it is, but under Texas law she could get 10 years.

Wowser, that's a more significant problem than I'd thought, thanks.

As you say it may well boost sales. She's in the news locally which I don't think I've seen before.

 

[Hurkyl]

I suspect the prosecutor may decide not to prosecute or, more likely, accept a fine under a reduced charge if that's possible. I certainly hope so. She's a highly original and compelling figure in a music scene that is otherwise all too bland and uninspiring.

You like her music, and therefore the law shouldn't apply to her?

 

[ChiralWaltz]

Sierra Blanca, TX is where Willie Nelson, Snoop Dogg and Armie Hammer have all been arrested for drugs in the past.

 

[Astronuc]

There's also the issue of the way she was stopped and arrested. The news media keeps on calling the location a "border check point". It's not. It's over 90mi (145km) from the El Paso border crossing. I question the legality of interior checkpoints where citizens can be stopped and searched with no probable cause. I lived for a short time in the old USSR (as part of my job) and never encountered an interior check point. Police could stop you at any time, but only to check your documentation.

It is an interior 'border check point', and one will enounter them in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. They check for illegal aliens, smugglers and drug traffickers. I've had experience with them in the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_Interior_Checkpoints

On I-10, there is a check point somewhere near the New Mexico - Arizona border. They check for uncontrolled produce going between Texas and California. The goal is to prevent pests from being transported from one agricultural region to another. At least it was there in the 1970s.

A friend and I were traveling from Texas to Arizona. We had a bag of grapefruit from Texas. We were given the choice of eating them or handing them over for disposal. We ate them and went on our way.

Along I-10 and interstates from the border with Mexico, one will routinely see border patrol agents doing patrol, much the same way state and local authorities do patrol for traffic violations.

 

[chemisttree]

My wife and I have been through that checkpoint a few times on our way between South Carolina and Arizona, most recently two years ago when I was on a solo trip. I don't think they ever asked us anything, just looked at us (a couple of non-Hispanic 50-60 year old geezers in a small sedan) and waved us on. I wonder what it takes to bring out the drug-sniffing dogs.

Tour bus.

 

[chemisttree]

I really wonder too. Someone must have recognized her and thought we have a chicken ready to be plucked here. As I said above, I seriously doubt she had her name plastered on the bus. Maybe they run the dogs on all tour buses.

EDIT: She may also have been identified by the Federal Border Patrol when the bus was first stopped. Since this is not an actual border crossing point, I don't see how this is justified without probable cause.

Drug sniffing dog gave the officers probable cause. Police and Border Patrol have a right to stop anyone on the interstate.

The title of the thread is misleading. Clearly it should be, "Drug User Fiona Apple Arrested in Texas."

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Drug sniffing dog gave the officers probable cause. Police and Border Patrol have a right to stop anyone on the interstate.

Wow! Random searches. It figures. Forget the Constitution where drugs are involved cause the war on drugs is more important.

 

[chemisttree]

Unfortunately drug smugglers, gun runners and human smugglers have stopped flying flags identifying themselves.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

Drug sniffing dog gave the officers probable cause. Police and Border Patrol have a right to stop anyone on the interstate.

The title of the thread is misleading. Clearly it should be, "Drug User Fiona Apple Arrested in Texas."

As with a lot of people if you include marijuana. How many adults alive today are criminals in fact given the use of any cannabis product is illegal? This case is complicated by the apparent fact that Apple was caught with hashish. I'm not saying she hasn't violated the law, but it's still a victimless crime. She's only potentially damaging her own health by using concentrated cannabis. So to save her from herself, we should imprison her? As for supporting organized crime, cannabis use supports organized crime because it is illegal.

I don't agree with your comment that federal agents or state police can stop and search anyone (including the deployment of drug sniffing dogs) without probable cause. The US Supreme Court seems to have ruled otherwise,

http://www.shouselaw.com/terry.html

BTW if you are giving Apple the drug user ID, add just about everyone else since you didn't specify illegal drugs.

 

[rootX]

As with a lot of people if you include marijuana. How many adults alive today are criminals in fact given the use of any cannabis product is illegal? This case in complicated by the apparent fact that Apple was caught with hashish. I'm not saying she hasn't violated the law, but it's still a victimless crime. She's only potentially damaging her own health by using concentrated cannabis. So to save her from herself, we should imprison her? As for supporting organized crime, cannabis use supports organized crime because it is illegal.

"victimless crime" is still a crime.

When she or anyone who has heard about this story considers buying marijuna next time, they will well remember this incident quite well. Imprisoning her deter her and many others from buying illegal drugs.

As for US general stance on drugs like marijuana, I think it's stupid to let the illegal markets flourish, cost of keeping these drugs illegal is way up the sky. I would rather prefer well regulated legal drug markets.

 

[Astronuc]

It may be a matter of course to check ALL commercial vehicles, e.g., buses and trucks because smugglers have used such vehicles in the past. It maybe that all vehicles are subject to sniffer dogs, and in the particular case, there were drugs on the bus.

If one transports illegal drugs, then one is accepting the risk and consequences of committing a crime - and getting caught.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

Unfortunately drug smugglers, gun runners and human smugglers have stopped flying flags identifying themselves.

Which one of these categories describes Ms Apple?

 

[Astronuc]

Which one of these categories describes Ms Apple?

None. She just happened to be in possession. They were doing a random check - and she just happened to be transporting a substance that falls under the jurisdiction of the state of Texas.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

None. She just happened to be in possession. They were doing a random check - and she just happened to be transporting a substance that falls under the jurisdiction of the state of Texas.

I know this is done. For instance random breathalyzer tests for DUI, but I think these actions could be challenged under the 4th Amendment and the SCOTUS decision referred to in post 20. In any case, these activities have not been particularly effective in reducing DUI or illegal drug use .

 

[Astronuc]

I know this is done. For instance random breathalyzer tests for DUI, but I think these actions could be challenged under the 4th Amendment and the SCOTUS decision referred to in post 20. In any case, these activities have not been particularly effective in reducing DUI or illegal drug use .

The acceptance of alcohol and the rejection of marijuana for ostensibly the same purpose is somewhat of a contradiction - in the US. However, there are commercial and regulatory interests involved.

 

[chemisttree]

I don't agree with your comment that federal agents or state police can stop and search anyone (including the deployment of drug sniffing dogs) without probable cause. The US Supreme Court seems to have ruled otherwise,

http://www.shouselaw.com/terry.html

You're just plain wrong about that. It's settled law. I said nothing about searching without probable cause.

Searching the exterior of a car at a checkpoint with drug sniffing dogs is not a violation of the 4th amendment.

For example, the Court has ruled that it is not a “search” under the Fourth Amendment if police use a dog to sniff the exterior of luggage that police have temporarily seized in an airport terminal, believing that it is likely to contain something illegal. It also has allowed police to check the outside of a vehicle that police have legitimately stopped at a highway checkpoint set up to search for illegal drugs, or to check the outside of a vehicle that police have legally stopped for a suspected traffic violation. In each of those situations, the impact on privacy was considered to be very slight, because the intrusion was minimal, so the use of the dog did not violate the Fourth Amendment.

Reality.

...if you are giving Apple the drug user ID, add just about everyone else since you didn't specify illegal drugs.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Unfortunately drug smugglers, gun runners and human smugglers have stopped flying flags identifying themselves.

They never did. There is nothing new under the sun. During the cold war we had far more at stake but we didn't randomly search busses for Russian spies. Course we had a form of this back in the 1950s, and it was called McCarthyism

Interesting that armed robbery is no worse than having some pot, in Texas. Certainly not a case of the punishment fitting the crime. This is just archaic!

Drug laws
http://www.mytexasdefenselawyer.com/texas-criminal-laws-penalties/drug-possession/

Armed robbery laws
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-robbery-laws.html

I'm sure this will get moved to P&WA so this will have to be my last post.

 

[Astronuc]

. . .

This is just archaic!

. . . .

It's Texas.

 

[russ_watters]

Interesting that armed robbery is no worse than having some pot, in Texas.

From your links:

Armed Robbery: "...two to twenty years in a state prison and/or a fine of no more than $10,000. If the crime is elevated to that of aggravated robbery, the charge will be first degree felony. This carries a more serious penalty of five to 99 years in a state prison and/or a fine of no more than $10,000."

Having some pot: "180 days to 2 years in a state jail and/or a fine of not more than $10,000" (4oz - 5lb)

The armed robbery penalty seems worse to me, though this of course depends on what you define as "some pot"

...though according to this, she was found with .01 lb of pot: http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/20/showbiz/fiona-apple-arrested/index.html

...which actually falls here: "Class B misdemeanor
Not more than 180 days in a county jail and/or a fine of not more than $2,000"

 

[russ_watters]

It's Texas.

It's wrong!

I guess this is how Texas gets such a bad rap.

 

[jgens]

It's wrong!

She was also in possession of 0.01lbs (4 grams - 5 grams) of hashish, which carries the following penalty according to Ivan's links: "2 to 20 years in a state prison and/or a fine of not more than $10,000"

That sounds suspiciously like the armed robbery penalty ...

Edit: To be clear, I realize you were reacting to Ivan's comment about having "some pot" as opposed to hashish, but I also think it's probably safe to assume that he meant to refer to the hashish charge.

 

[rootX]

From your links:

Armed Robbery: "...two to twenty years in a state prison and/or a fine of no more than $10,000. If the crime is elevated to that of aggravated robbery, the charge will be first degree felony. This carries a more serious penalty of five to 99 years in a state prison and/or a fine of no more than $10,000."

Having some pot: "180 days to 2 years in a state jail and/or a fine of not more than $10,000" (4oz - 5lb)

It's all about adding spins as you said in PW&A once. It appears you purposely highlighted comparison between getting charged for "Less than one gram" and robbery. While, I thought this could also be a good comparison:

4 grams or more, but less than 200 grams Second-degree felony 2 to 20 years in a state prison and/or a fine of not more than $10,000

Robbery is charged as a second degree felony in Texas. This carries a penalty of two to twenty years in a state prison and/or a fine of no more than $10,000.

though this of course depends on what you define as "some pot"

Yes that's correct.

 

[russ_watters]

It's all about adding spins as you said in PW&A once. It appears you purposely highlighted comparison between getting charged for "Less than one gram" and robbery.

No, I didn't. You're reading the wrong page (perhaps Ivan made the same mistake?). The pot penalties are linked from the page Ivan posted, but they aren't on that page, they are on this one: http://www.mytexasdefenselawyer.com/texas-criminal-laws-penalties/drug-possession-marijuana/

"less than 1 gram" of pot wouldn't even be enough for one joint!

 

[rootX]

No, I didn't. You're reading the wrong page (perhaps Ivan made the same mistake?). The pot penalties are linked from the page Ivan posted, but they aren't on that page, they are on this one: http://www.mytexasdefenselawyer.com/texas-criminal-laws-penalties/drug-possession-marijuana/

"less than 1 gram" of pot wouldn't even be enough for one joint!

For clarification purpose:

Fiona was found with 0.010 pounds of hashish which is 4 grams. Hashish falls under group "2 Ecstasy (MMDA), PCP, mescaline, (resinous extractives of Cannabis that aren’t marihuana, e.g. hashish)" [see http://www.mytexasdefenselawyer.com/texas-criminal-laws-penalties/drug-possession/]

For group 2 drugs, four grams carry Second-degree felony.

What I believe is that you are using different link which is different from the one Ivan posted. However, I noticed that Ivan referred to pot (which you assumed to be marijuana) not hashish. Now I understand jgens comment in edit: "I also think it's probably safe to assume that he meant to refer to the hashish charge".

I also assumed that Ivan was talking about what Fiona charged for not marijuana. Further notice that Ivan only mentioned pot not marijuana in specific. pot can be referred to hashish as well (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pot).

 

[russ_watters]

What I believe is that you are using different link which is different from the one Ivan posted.

The link I posted is linked from the middle of the page Ivan posted, right under the list of penalty categories, in this sentence:
"Also see our marijuana possession laws & defense page. The full Texas Controlled Substances act is here."

I'm willing to believe he misread the page/didn't see the link (like I'll grant you didn't), but I'm not so charitable in my assumptions about such a convenient mis-speak on which drug he was talking about.

I'm also unappreciative of being accused of malfesance.

 

[Evo]

The OP was misleading, she had hashish, not just plain cannabis (marijuana).

Hashish is a paste or pressed into a cake, a very concentrated, potent concentrate of cannabis.

Hashish, often known as "hash", is a cannabis preparation composed of compressed and/or purified preparations of stalked resin glands, called trichomes, collected from the unfertilized buds of the cannabis plant. It contains the same active ingredients—such as THC and other cannabinoids—but in higher concentrations than unsifted buds or leaves.

Hashish is currently illegal to use or consume nearly everywhere in the world.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashish

 

[rootX]

I'm also unappreciative of being accused of malfesance.

Statements like these are detrimental to have a good discussion. I am not really interested in this kind of stuff . Let's Ivan speak for what he referred to as pot and if he was on correct page. I have already provided you my interpretation of Ivan post and this thread, and that's all about it.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

The OP was misleading, she had hashish, not just plain cannabis (marijuana).

Hashish is a paste or pressed into a cake, a very concentrated, potent concentrate of cannabis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashish

Hashish, as the article says , is a concentrated form of cannabis. I made it clear in the early posts that that the find included marijuana and hashish and that possession of any amount of hashish is a felony in Texas. The OP was correct. The linked article identified the find as hashish, a form of cannabis. If it was just marijuana, I would have said so.

 

[Evo]

Hashish, as the article says , is a concentrated form of cannabis. I made it clear in the early posts that that the find included marijuana and hashish and that possession of any amount of hashish is a felony in Texas. The OP was correct. The linked article identified the find as "cannabis"

The aticle says

The singer-songwriter had 4 grams of hashish

and other news reports were quite clear that she was arrested for hashish, which is a felony. Hashish is nothing like regular marijuana. Unfortunately a number of posters went on the assumption it was just pot, and that's not the case at all. We just need to make sure the facts are clear and that members that aren't clear are corrected.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

The aticle says and other news reports were quite clear that she was arrested for hashish, which is a felony. Hashish is nothing like regular marijuana. Unfortunately a number of posters went on the assumption it was just pot, and that's not the case at all. We just need to make sure the facts are clear and that members that aren't clear are corrected.

The article says:

"The singer-songwriter had 4 grams of hashish, a form of cannabis".

All anyone had to do was read the linked article in the first post. Later posts clearly indicated that hashish possession is a felony. Perhaps I should have said hashish in the first post, but I was not aware that possession of 4 grams of hashish is a felony in Texas. When I learned of it, I posted it (post 6 edit, post 10 and post 20).

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest...s-caught-carrying-hashish-in-West-Texas-video

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Lord, hash is just the resin from pot plants. It is all the same thing.

 

[Evo]

Lord, hash is just the resin from pot plants. It is all the same thing.

And heroin and opium are just resin from poppies, it's all the same thing...NOT.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

And heroin and opium are just resin from poppies, it's all the same thing...NOT.

The distinction is trivial. It is the same active chemical. The effects are the same.

You don't get high by smelling or eating a poppy flower, but you do get high from smoking or eating pot.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

E cigarettes are to cigarettes what hash is to pot. Same thing. You are just smoking the oil instead of the plant fiber loaded with the oil.

 

[rootX]

And heroin and opium are just resin from poppies, it's all the same thing...NOT.

I had to look up the pot definition in post #35. You can see it yourself pot refers to both marijuana and hashish.

 

[russ_watters]

Could you post that link please.

 

[rootX]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pot



n
(Law / Recreational Drugs) Slang cannabis used as a drug in any form, such as leaves (marijuana or hemp) or resin (hashish)
[perhaps shortened from Mexican Indian potiguaya]

 

[Ryan_m_b]

It's difficult to go by slang given regionality but in the UK you won't hear hash referred to as weed.

Personally I'm still of the opinion that drug offences don't deserve prison sentences. In fact the only reason one should be sent to prison IMO is because one is a physical threat to the public and property.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

Austin, the state capital of Texas, is somewhat paradoxically considered to be a "liberal island" in a generally conservative state. The main campus of the University of Texas is located there (50,000 students) and it is an internationally known music center with many live bands performing year around. In March it hosts the South by Southwest music festival where leading performers from all over the world appear. Not surprisingly there is also an active and not particularly hidden illegal drug culture. Travis County (Austin) is one of two jurisdictions in Texas where the police generally opt to cite rather than arrest suspected violators of substance abuse laws depending on the violation and circumstances.

If only FA had made it to Austin, she might have been "safe". But she didn't so now she's a felon. She hasn't been convicted (yet) but according to the law, she has no realistic defense. Since she was released on $10000 bail, she might be able to arrange a plea bargain from out of state in lieu of forfeiting her bail. Apparently this is commonly done, but a felony conviction will likely remain on her record.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places...zed_non-medical_cannabis_in_the_United_States

http://www.meetup.com/aficionados/