Register to reply

A hellim ballon in a bus

by rbwang1225
Tags: ballon, hellim
Share this thread:
rbwang1225
#1
Dec10-12, 01:19 AM
P: 116
1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data
Consider a hellium balloon with negiligible mass in the bus with all windows closed.
When the bus is acclerating in ##\mathbf a=a \mathbf i##, where ## \mathbf i## is the unit vector in the positive x direction, describe the status of the ballon and explain the reason.
If we consider the massive balloon, does your answer change?
Explain the reason.
(Status: Does it tilt or not? What are the tilting diraction and angle?)

2. Relevant equations
Buoyent force ##ρgV##

3. The attempt at a solution
I know the answer might be ##tan\theta=\frac{g}{a}## or something like this, but I don't really the reason behide this.
I think it is related to physics in noninertial frames.

Any help would be appreciated.
Sincerely.
Phys.Org News Partner Science news on Phys.org
Security CTO to detail Android Fake ID flaw at Black Hat
Huge waves measured for first time in Arctic Ocean
Mysterious molecules in space
Borek
#2
Dec10-12, 02:56 AM
Admin
Borek's Avatar
P: 23,393
Forget about the bus for a moment. What usually happens to the helium filled balloon and why?
rbwang1225
#3
Dec10-12, 09:36 AM
P: 116
The balloon will float in the air because of the density of the helium is smaller than that of air.
I just got a new idea, but don't know if it's right or not.
Click image for larger version

Name:	balloon.jpeg
Views:	2
Size:	16.3 KB
ID:	53791
Because of the total force is ##\mathbf B+m\mathbf g## which equals ##m\mathbf a##, and I think the direction of the gravity is the same, therefore it is the change of the buoyant force that causes the change of the status of the balloon.

Borek
#4
Dec10-12, 11:19 AM
Admin
Borek's Avatar
P: 23,393
A hellim ballon in a bus

The balloon will float, or ascend?
rbwang1225
#5
Dec10-12, 11:33 AM
P: 116
Sorry, bad english, the balloon will ascend.
Borek
#6
Dec10-12, 11:47 AM
Admin
Borek's Avatar
P: 23,393
OK, why does it ascend?
rbwang1225
#7
Dec10-12, 11:55 AM
P: 116
Because the pressure at the lower part of the balloon is greater than the upper part of it, and, the buoyant force is larger than the gravitational force, the balloon ascends.
Borek
#8
Dec10-12, 12:59 PM
Admin
Borek's Avatar
P: 23,393
OK, but why do these differences exist? Do they exist in the zero gravity environment?
Chestermiller
#9
Dec10-12, 01:34 PM
Sci Advisor
HW Helper
Thanks
PF Gold
Chestermiller's Avatar
P: 5,060
If the balloon is not on a string held by someone, where do you think the balloon is located vertically before the bus starts to accelerate?

(a) in mid air
(b) at the roof of the bus.

If your answer is (b), what do you think the magnitude of the force is that the roof exerts on the balloon?
rbwang1225
#10
Dec12-12, 12:07 AM
P: 116
Quote Quote by Borek View Post
OK, but why do these differences exist? Do they exist in the zero gravity environment?
No, they always exist in a gravitational environment.
As for the reason of these differences, I don't really understand your question, sorry...
rbwang1225
#11
Dec12-12, 12:16 AM
P: 116
Quote Quote by Chestermiller View Post
If the balloon is not on a string held by someone, where do you think the balloon is located vertically before the bus starts to accelerate?

(a) in mid air
(b) at the roof of the bus.

If your answer is (b), what do you think the magnitude of the force is that the roof exerts on the balloon?
My answer is (b), but I don't really know how to figure out the direction and magnitude of the normal force exerted by the roof and the buoyant force which, I think, has something to do with the condition of the windows.
Basic_Physics
#12
Dec12-12, 02:02 AM
P: 358
Because of this part:
"(Status: Does it tilt or not? What are the tilting diraction and angle?"
I think we should consider it to be floating up in the air and it is on a sting held by a student.
So the balloon actually acts as an accelerometer in this case:
http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2...-one-yourself/
CWatters
#13
Dec12-12, 02:52 AM
P: 3,106
I think we should consider it to be floating up in the air and it is on a sting held by a student.
or at least assume that the balloon is weighted so it has a tendency to float one way up eg with the knot pointing downwards.

Perhaps it would help the OP to remember that when the bus is stationary gravity (an acceleration) is pulling the air vertically downwards. What happens when the bus and the air in it are also accelerating in another direction. It helps if you have ridden on a bus standing up!
Borek
#14
Dec12-12, 02:59 AM
Admin
Borek's Avatar
P: 23,393
Let me reword the original problem. Imagine you have a helium filled balloon in the standing bus. Obviously, the balloon goes up till it stops at the roof and it stays there. Now, what will happen when the bus starts to move?
Basic_Physics
#15
Dec12-12, 04:28 AM
P: 358
http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2009...e-crazy-ideas/


Register to reply

Related Discussions
Charged Ballon Introductory Physics Homework 15
Ballon Introductory Physics Homework 7
Helium Ballon Introductory Physics Homework 0
Volume of Ballon Introductory Physics Homework 9