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Sounds like this could really be it this time. What do you think?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20351553
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20351553
russ_watters said:I tend to doubt it. I don't think either side really wants an all-out war. Nasty, though.
I think it will just run its course in a week.Greg Bernhardt said:What do you think will calm things down again? Egypt?
Jack21222 said:I just hope as few civilians on both sides get killed as possible. Hamas intentionally targets civilians, and Israel isn't known for its restraint in killing whomever happens to be in its way (just ask Rachel Corrie). So, it doesn't look good.
Greg Bernhardt said:Sounds like this could really be it this time. What do you think?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20351553
Evo said:This thread will be locked if it becomes another "blame game". We have members from both areas here and I will not tolerate one side claiming the other side is worse, to blame, wrong, evil, yada yada yada.
Discussion about "this" particular incident is allowable as long as it remans civil. No going backwards and posting about prior incidents.
aquitaine said:to where World War 3 will start. I say China.
lisab said:bold: If only we could require that of everyone in the region
They should all be like I am. then their conflicts would peter out in a couple of generations.Evo said:We have members from both areas here and I will not tolerate one side claiming the other side is worse
.
rootX said:I wonder if Gaza has capacity to go on war with Israel, maybe this will be just asymmetrical warfare?
I don't see very high risk of dying from those Gaza rockets. Israel have Iron Dome and second those rockets just seem to fly without any target. But, Israel doesn't struggle a lot to eliminate the rockets' sources.
Yes and Arab countries are still unstable to stand against Israel. This is the reason I don't understand why BBC analysis is so gloomy:aquitaine said:They don't, in a standup fight against the Israelis the Arabs have fared very badly.
even thoughBut a dramatic flare-up was transformed into an increasingly serious international crisis by Israel's assassination of Ahmed Jabari
So far about 3 Israelis and 40 Palestinians are dead and fortunately still low for calling this a massacre.So far what is happening is nowhere near the scale of the war between Hamas and Israel either side of the New Year in 2009.
What do you mean by "it"?Greg Bernhardt said:Sounds like this could really be it this time. What do you think?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20351553
arildno said:"I met a lot of palestinians : no beast or men could live and stand what they are experiencing"
What they are "experiencing" is better living conditions than in most non-Gulf Arab states.
Here's a few figures from Egypt:
" Maternal mortality rate:
66 deaths/100,000 live births (2010)
country comparison to the world: 92
Infant mortality rate:
Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.
total: 24.23 deaths/1,000 live births
country comparison to the world: 80
male: 25.8 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 22.59 deaths/1,000 live births (2012 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.
total population: 72.93 years
country comparison to the world: 122
male: 70.33 years
female: 75.66 years (2012 est.)"
And here, from the Gaza Strip:
" Maternal mortality rate:
Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.
64 deaths/100,000 live births (2010)
country comparison to the world: 95
Infant mortality rate:
Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.
total: 16.55 deaths/1,000 live births
country comparison to the world: 104
male: 17.65 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 15.38 deaths/1,000 live births (2012 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.
total population: 74.16 years
country comparison to the world: 110
male: 72.48 years
female: 75.95 years (2012 est.)"
--------------------------------
The real FALLACY is to represent Palestinians to be "suffering" at all.
arildno said:"Mate, you don't know what you talk about if you think that statistics give you an idea of how people live and die."
That is PRECISELY what statistics give you, rather than emotional outbursts.
nazarbaz said:Calculate human lives then and think of it as a theorem. You'll know the essence of what humanity is.
russ_watters said:Nazarbaz, the humanitarian situation in Gaza is largely the doing of the Palestinians. While Israel does not typically respond to minor attacks, no matter how frequent, they do have a vested interest in preventing an escalation and as a result, they have a vested interest in preventing weapons from getting into Gaza. Which they certainly have a right to do. Hence, the blockade. And it isn't like Israel is alone in this: Egypt takes pretty much the same position.
More generally though:
The Palestinians are in a tough spot, definitely, but it is the catch-22 of their situation and goals that puts them there. The current status quo of the decades-old "war" is Israel having pretty much everything it wants, so an end to fighting would mean Israel "wins". Not liking the status quo means the Palestinians are the ones who want to keep the war going, in the hope that someday they can turn the tide. So they'll shoot a few rockets a day or a week, forever to keep the war "officially" going.
The problem now appears to me that a rocket a day isn't enough anymore to keep the war going. It may be due to the Iron Dome system, but Israel doesn't seem to care much about the continuous attacks. So for the most part, the Palestinians are fighting a war against Israel that the Israelis are ignoring. So every now and then, Hamas decides they have to escalate it to remind people there is an actual war goin on.
The catch-22 is that the continued attacks and periodic escalation make Hamas/the Palestinians look to the rest of the world like the aggressors, which appears to be causing their global support to diminish. It is sad to me, but it appears that instead of making an undesirable peace, they are choosing to endure generations of suffering in a losing war.
arildno said:Factor in an evil genocidal culture lecturing day after day, in schools, mosques and newspapers about the virtue of exterminating Jews, and you'll understand why Palestinians should not be given any chance whatsoever from realizing any of their stated goals.
Their misery is strictly, and solely, their own fault.
arildno said:1. "The question of who began what is insoluble"
No, it is perfectly soluble. It began by the evil culture fostered by men like Haj-Amin al-Husseini, orchestrating massacres on peacefully, legitimately settled Jews back in the 1920s That evil policy of terror intensified during the 1930s and 1940s.
2. " We're talking about the oldest conflict on the planet where the two protagonists denied the other's right to exist as a nation."
Incorrect. Israel has NEVER denied the other part the right to exist as a nation. That is SOLELY the position of the Palestinians and fellow Arab governments.
Several issues here:nazarbaz said:The question of who began what is insoluble, Russ. I'm not going into this and I'm not talking about the recent outburst. But to say that the humantarian situation is mostly, more or less, to that extent or the other, the palestinians fault is simply not acceptable. We're talking about the oldest conflict on the planet where the two protagonists denied the other's right to exist as a nation. No one is good or evil, no one is responsible for it. The situation went wrong from the very beginning as everyone acted according it's own interests.
You can't ask palestinians to accept any peace process unleashed by the other part, it's not fair. And you can't blame them for resisting the logic of the most powerful.
Please explain and provide a source.nazarbaz said:2. Say that to Benny, please...
Israelis work together and have turned a desert into a garden. The Palestinians fight among themselves and with others and have turned a desert into a wasteland.
russ_watters said:Several issues here:
1. I'm not talking about who began what, nor the age of the conflict. That's pointless and rightly banned from this thread by the moderator of this forum. I'm talking about who is keeping it going. As such:
2. Currently, only one side denies the right of the other to exist.
3. Currently, only one side would accpet an immediate end to hostility.
4. As a result, one side -- the side that is being harmed the most by the war -- can easily and immediately choose to end the fighting, immediately improving their lives. The other cannot.
The Gaza War ended due to a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas, which was brokered by Egypt. This ceasefire was implemented after 11 days of intense fighting, which resulted in significant loss of life and destruction.
The Gaza War lasted for 11 days, from May 10th to May 21st, 2021.
The main factors contributing to the end of the Gaza War were international pressure, the high number of civilian casualties, and the exhaustion of resources on both sides. The United Nations, the United States, and other countries called for an immediate ceasefire, and the mounting death toll and destruction led to pressure for a resolution.
It is difficult to predict if there will be a lasting peace after the end of the Gaza War. The ceasefire agreement includes some provisions for improving the living conditions in Gaza, such as allowing humanitarian aid and reconstruction efforts. However, there are still underlying issues and tensions that need to be addressed for a lasting peace to be achieved.
The end of the Gaza War could have various consequences, including political, economic, and social impacts. The ceasefire agreement may lead to a temporary calm in the region, but there is a risk of future conflicts erupting if underlying issues are not addressed. The ongoing humanitarian crisis in Gaza also needs to be addressed, as well as the long-standing Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Additionally, the end of the war could have implications for regional alliances and international relations.