Coordinate Transformation & Jacobian Matrix

In summary, the conversation discusses the transformation of coordinates between two coordinate systems, the old system and the new system. The coordinate basis for the old and new systems are denoted as ei and e'i respectively. Matrices BL and BR are defined such that they transform the basis vectors from the old system to the new system. Similarly, matrices CL and CR are defined, replacing the basis vectors with components of vectors in the underlying set of V. There is also discussion about the Jacobian matrix of this transformation, which can be defined in two different ways but are ultimately equivalent. The conversation also touches on the importance of consistently using the correct version of the theory when performing calculations.
  • #1
Rasalhague
1,387
2
Is the following correct, as far as it goes?

Suppose I have a vector space V and I'm making a transformation from one coordinate system, "the old system", with coordinates xi, to another, "the new system", with coordinates yi. Where i is an index that runs from 1 to n.

Let ei denote the coordinate basis for the old system, and e'i the coordinate basis for the new system.

I can define matrices BL and BR (where subscript L and R stand for "left" and "right") such that

[tex]B_L \begin{bmatrix} \vdots \\ \textbf{e}_i \\ \vdots \end{bmatrix} = \begin{bmatrix} \vdots \\ \textbf{e}'_i \\ \vdots \end{bmatrix}[/tex]

[tex]\begin{bmatrix} \cdots & \textbf{e}_i & \cdots \end{bmatrix} B_R = \begin{bmatrix} \cdots & \textbf{e}'_i & \cdots \end{bmatrix}[/tex]

and likewise matrices CL and CR, replacing the basis vectors in the above definitions with components of vectors in (the underlying set of) V.

And

[tex]C_L = \left ( C_R \right )^T = \begin{bmatrix}
\frac{\partial y^1}{\partial x^1} & \cdots & \frac{\partial y^1}{\partial x^n} \\
\vdots & \ddots & \vdots \\
\frac{\partial y^n}{\partial x^1} & \cdots & \frac{\partial y^n}{\partial x^n}
\end{bmatrix}[/tex]

and

[tex]\left ( C_L \right )^{-1} = B_L = \left ( B_R \right )^T = \begin{bmatrix}
\frac{\partial x^1}{\partial y^1} & \cdots & \frac{\partial x^1}{\partial y^n} \\
\vdots & \ddots & \vdots \\
\frac{\partial x^n}{\partial y^1} & \cdots & \frac{\partial x^n}{\partial y^n}
\end{bmatrix}.[/tex]

And some people (e.g. Wolfram Mathworld, Berkley & Blanchard: Calculus) define the Jacobian matrix of this transformation as

[tex]J \equiv C_L \equiv \frac{\partial \left ( y^1,...,y^n \right )}{\partial \left ( x^1,...,x^n \right )}[/tex]

while others (e.g. Snider & Davis: Vector Analysis) define it as

[tex]J \equiv \left ( C_L \right )^{-1} \equiv \frac{\partial \left ( x^1,...,x^n \right )}{\partial \left ( y^1,...,y^n \right )}.[/tex]
 
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  • #2
They are really the same thing. Your CL transforms from the "x_i" coordinates system to the "yj" coordinate system while CL-1, of course, goes the other way, transforming from the "yj" coordinate system to the "xi" coordinate system.
 
  • #3
I don't understand how they're "really the same thing". For a given coordinate transformation, won't CL generally be a different matrix from its inverse BL? Also, changing a subscript on one of these matrices from L to R or vice versa transposes it, and in general a matrix is not the same thing as its transpose.

Experimenting with the transformation from 2d Cartesian to plane polar coordinates confirms that using the wrong matrices, or the right ones in the wrong order, gives the wrong answer. In fact in this thread, I did make a mistake (see #4), and if I'd done the multiplication correctly it wouldn't have given the required answer.

I'm thinking if they were literally the same, there'd be no need for Griffel's "Warning. There are two ways to define the change matrix. In our definition, the columns are the B'-components of the B vectors. Some authors define it with B and B' interchanged, giving a matrix which is the inverse of ours. The two versions of the theory look slightly different, but they are equivalent. It does not matter which version is used, provided itis used consistently. Using formulas from one version in a calculation from the other version will give the wrong answers" (Linear Algebra and its Applications, Vol. 2, p. 11).

But maybe you only meant that they're the same sort of thing, or that if we swapped the labels "old" and "new", the same matrices would be playing opposite roles.
 
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  • #4
Rasalhague said:
But maybe you only meant that they're the same sort of thing, or that if we swapped the labels "old" and "new", the same matrices would be playing opposite roles.
Yes, this is correct.
 

1. What is a coordinate transformation?

A coordinate transformation is the process of converting coordinates from one coordinate system to another. This is typically done to make it easier to solve problems or analyze data in a different coordinate system.

2. What is the purpose of a Jacobian matrix in coordinate transformation?

The Jacobian matrix is a mathematical tool used to represent the relationship between two coordinate systems. It is used to calculate how the coordinates in one system change when transformed to another system. This is important for understanding how different variables are related in different coordinate systems.

3. How is the Jacobian matrix calculated?

The Jacobian matrix is calculated by taking the partial derivatives of one coordinate system with respect to the other coordinate system. Each element of the matrix represents the change in one variable with respect to another variable.

4. What is the difference between a forward and inverse coordinate transformation?

A forward coordinate transformation is the process of converting coordinates from one system to another, while an inverse coordinate transformation is the process of converting coordinates from one system back to the original system. The Jacobian matrix is used in both types of transformations to represent the relationship between the coordinate systems.

5. Can the Jacobian matrix be used for non-linear coordinate transformations?

Yes, the Jacobian matrix can be used for non-linear coordinate transformations. In this case, the matrix will contain derivatives of the transformation equations rather than the variables themselves. This allows for the calculation of the change in coordinates for more complex transformations.

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